Podcast Transcript - Building Better CMOs
Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority CMO Kate Wik
Kate and Greg talk about aligning diverse stakeholders and balancing short-term event activations with long-term brand building. Plus: The destination-wide impact of massive campaigns like F1 Shoey drops, BTS citywide takeovers, and America 250 fireworks.
KATE: When we come up with an idea, we got to go make sure that we're bringing the entire destination along with us because it's ... Those marquees that we turn purple, those buildings that we turn purple for BTS, that's not my building or my assets. It's bringing others along with you. That's what drives the scale of a great idea. For us and generally just for advice, it's bring others along with you because that's where the success of your idea is going to blossom is if everybody buys into it.
GREG: Kate Wik, welcome to Building Better CMOs.
KATE: Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
GREG: You are the CMO of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority. Do you know any other CMOs that represent a city?
KATE: There are other CMOs for ... What we call the industry is destination marketing organization, or DMO. And so we are here to drive tourism to our respective destinations.
GREG: But nobody ... Every other city is envious of you and your brand.
KATE: That's right. (laugh)
GREG: There's no way. I mean, I don't know, we could walk through... Orlando? No way. Miami? Miami's nice. That's got a good destination to it. New York, obviously, but even still not, I don't know, not as special as Vegas, I think, right?
KATE: I agree 100%. (laugh)
KATE: Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
GREG: You are the CMO of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority. Do you know any other CMOs that represent a city?
KATE: There are other CMOs for ... What we call the industry is destination marketing organization, or DMO. And so we are here to drive tourism to our respective destinations.
GREG: But nobody ... Every other city is envious of you and your brand.
KATE: That's right. (laugh)
GREG: There's no way. I mean, I don't know, we could walk through... Orlando? No way. Miami? Miami's nice. That's got a good destination to it. New York, obviously, but even still not, I don't know, not as special as Vegas, I think, right?
KATE: I agree 100%. (laugh)
How the LVCVA Markets Las Vegas
GREG: Okay. So what does that mean? Is the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority, is that a nonprofit? How does that work? Are you just a collection? Are you in essence the chamber of commerce for the city? Give some structure just so people understand how that works.
KATE: Yeah, great question because I think it's very unique. This role is very unique and our organization is very unique. We actually are a government organization, so born of the Nevada State Legislature from back in the 1950s. They had the foresight to set up our organization to drive visitation for Southern Nevada. It is literally the lifeblood of Southern Nevada. Economic impact from tourism is the number one driver of our economy. It's critical that we stay laser focused on it. So we are a government organization and we're funded via a room tax from all of our hotel partners. So every time a visitor comes and stays, there's a room tax fee.
GREG: So I'm paying to get the next person to show up.
KATE: Correct.
GREG: Sort of. Okay, fair enough.
KATE: It's a perpetual cycle. It's brilliant, when you think about it. Yeah, because our locals aren't paying it, it's our visitors [who] are paying it and it creates an engine to make sure that we are constantly driving and feeding the pipeline of visitation to make our economy run.
GREG: Wow. It really is something. Now, how did you actually end up as the head of ... How do you get to be the CMO of a city? I think your original education was poli sci, is that right? Am I right?
KATE: That's right. Wow, you did your homework. Yes. Yeah. Good job. Yeah, very unusual when you think about where I ended up with my career versus where I started it. But my professional career has really been in advertising and marketing, even though I, again, didn't study it from the get-go. I did about half my career on the agency side of things. So worked in ad agencies in L.A. and then in Phoenix. And it was when I was in Phoenix that I worked for the ad agency for MGM Grand. And they tapped me on the shoulder to come over. I'm one of the hundreds of thousands of people that never thought they'd move to Vegas and then find themselves here and just absolutely fall in love with it. So I've been here about 15 years. Ten years was spent with, actually, MGM Resorts broadly. So started at MGM Grand at the property level and then ran functions of marketing for MGM Resorts globally and then came over to the destination as the chief marketing officer, gosh, back in 2020.
GREG: Who approves the campaign? Who's the client on this? Because listen, you have some very big, very financially strong businesses that comprise ... That I think you're predominantly working for, I assume. And you worked at MGM. So I mean, who's giving focus and intention to this?
KATE: So we are governed by a 14-member board. And so our board is half elected officials and half big stakeholders. So we've got all the big resorts are represented one way or another on our board as well as local big businesses because tourism again is the engine of this. And so I take input from all of them. What is very unique in my role is I cannot take input from one single operator solely, because they have a competing interest from what the destination has. My job is to drive the destination and the 150,000 hotel rooms in it, not just a single operator.
GREG: Their strategic focus might be on, say, I don't know, sports betting or that kind of thing. They might have something around particular gaming, but you're like, no, the overall group has to make a decision about what's going to drive. Do you think the group is organized around just growth and, in essence, room nights? Is that really the primary driver of the whole thing?
KATE: It's definitely making sure that we're driving visitation, which is measured in room nights, but it's also the profitability of that visitation.
GREG: Oh right, right.
KATE: What's the customer that we're bringing in? Is it the right customer? Are they able to not just fill a hotel room, but are they doing the entire Vegas experience? So spending on dining, on nightclubs, on day clubs or shopping or attractions and entertainment.
GREG: How good is the data for something like that, Kate? I mean, it'd be hard to get everybody to work together, I would think.
KATE: Man, you are nailing it. That's exactly right.
GREG: Well, listen, I run a nonprofit industry body, and this is the second one I've run. So I have a pretty good sense of what it means to try to get everybody aligned. It's a trick in its own right. Yeah.
KATE: It definitely is a trick. And again, I go back to the competing interests. Vegas, again, number one, it is the most hotel rooms in any U.S. city. You could probably argue we go back and forth with some Middle East destinations in terms of the largest destination when you measure just straight hotel rooms. So we've got the most volume to drive, but we operate on the very high end of luxury all the way to the other end of the spectrum of the most economical room type there is.
GREG: Oh, right. Of course you would. Of course you would. Right.
KATE: And so that's all different audiences that are filling all of those 150,000 hotel rooms. So our stakeholder at Circus Circus is interested in a very different audience than our stakeholder at Wynn or Bellagio, for example.
GREG: Yeah, totally, totally. And very different, though, those who are in old Vegas versus those of us who maybe go to a convention or an event as a business person.
KATE: Yeah, exactly.
GREG: I mean, it's really all over the place. Boy, that's actually really hard. So you would have or could have a series of personas, different personalities, different profiles of people that would be attending, and for a whole host of different reasons, we'll get into some of that. I mean, it actually is pretty diverse and you're really looking for revenue optimization over available inventory because one, you don't change the inventory that often that fast.
KATE: That's right. But I mean, there's still room to grow in terms of overall volume. We ended 2025 at about 80% occupancy. First of all, that is much higher than U.S. average, and it's much higher than when you look at just the top 25 markets. And so we drive a ton of volume on the largest room base in the country, but yet there's still room to grow. That's the scale that we operate in.
KATE: Yeah, great question because I think it's very unique. This role is very unique and our organization is very unique. We actually are a government organization, so born of the Nevada State Legislature from back in the 1950s. They had the foresight to set up our organization to drive visitation for Southern Nevada. It is literally the lifeblood of Southern Nevada. Economic impact from tourism is the number one driver of our economy. It's critical that we stay laser focused on it. So we are a government organization and we're funded via a room tax from all of our hotel partners. So every time a visitor comes and stays, there's a room tax fee.
GREG: So I'm paying to get the next person to show up.
KATE: Correct.
GREG: Sort of. Okay, fair enough.
KATE: It's a perpetual cycle. It's brilliant, when you think about it. Yeah, because our locals aren't paying it, it's our visitors [who] are paying it and it creates an engine to make sure that we are constantly driving and feeding the pipeline of visitation to make our economy run.
GREG: Wow. It really is something. Now, how did you actually end up as the head of ... How do you get to be the CMO of a city? I think your original education was poli sci, is that right? Am I right?
KATE: That's right. Wow, you did your homework. Yes. Yeah. Good job. Yeah, very unusual when you think about where I ended up with my career versus where I started it. But my professional career has really been in advertising and marketing, even though I, again, didn't study it from the get-go. I did about half my career on the agency side of things. So worked in ad agencies in L.A. and then in Phoenix. And it was when I was in Phoenix that I worked for the ad agency for MGM Grand. And they tapped me on the shoulder to come over. I'm one of the hundreds of thousands of people that never thought they'd move to Vegas and then find themselves here and just absolutely fall in love with it. So I've been here about 15 years. Ten years was spent with, actually, MGM Resorts broadly. So started at MGM Grand at the property level and then ran functions of marketing for MGM Resorts globally and then came over to the destination as the chief marketing officer, gosh, back in 2020.
GREG: Who approves the campaign? Who's the client on this? Because listen, you have some very big, very financially strong businesses that comprise ... That I think you're predominantly working for, I assume. And you worked at MGM. So I mean, who's giving focus and intention to this?
KATE: So we are governed by a 14-member board. And so our board is half elected officials and half big stakeholders. So we've got all the big resorts are represented one way or another on our board as well as local big businesses because tourism again is the engine of this. And so I take input from all of them. What is very unique in my role is I cannot take input from one single operator solely, because they have a competing interest from what the destination has. My job is to drive the destination and the 150,000 hotel rooms in it, not just a single operator.
GREG: Their strategic focus might be on, say, I don't know, sports betting or that kind of thing. They might have something around particular gaming, but you're like, no, the overall group has to make a decision about what's going to drive. Do you think the group is organized around just growth and, in essence, room nights? Is that really the primary driver of the whole thing?
KATE: It's definitely making sure that we're driving visitation, which is measured in room nights, but it's also the profitability of that visitation.
GREG: Oh right, right.
KATE: What's the customer that we're bringing in? Is it the right customer? Are they able to not just fill a hotel room, but are they doing the entire Vegas experience? So spending on dining, on nightclubs, on day clubs or shopping or attractions and entertainment.
GREG: How good is the data for something like that, Kate? I mean, it'd be hard to get everybody to work together, I would think.
KATE: Man, you are nailing it. That's exactly right.
GREG: Well, listen, I run a nonprofit industry body, and this is the second one I've run. So I have a pretty good sense of what it means to try to get everybody aligned. It's a trick in its own right. Yeah.
KATE: It definitely is a trick. And again, I go back to the competing interests. Vegas, again, number one, it is the most hotel rooms in any U.S. city. You could probably argue we go back and forth with some Middle East destinations in terms of the largest destination when you measure just straight hotel rooms. So we've got the most volume to drive, but we operate on the very high end of luxury all the way to the other end of the spectrum of the most economical room type there is.
GREG: Oh, right. Of course you would. Of course you would. Right.
KATE: And so that's all different audiences that are filling all of those 150,000 hotel rooms. So our stakeholder at Circus Circus is interested in a very different audience than our stakeholder at Wynn or Bellagio, for example.
GREG: Yeah, totally, totally. And very different, though, those who are in old Vegas versus those of us who maybe go to a convention or an event as a business person.
KATE: Yeah, exactly.
GREG: I mean, it's really all over the place. Boy, that's actually really hard. So you would have or could have a series of personas, different personalities, different profiles of people that would be attending, and for a whole host of different reasons, we'll get into some of that. I mean, it actually is pretty diverse and you're really looking for revenue optimization over available inventory because one, you don't change the inventory that often that fast.
KATE: That's right. But I mean, there's still room to grow in terms of overall volume. We ended 2025 at about 80% occupancy. First of all, that is much higher than U.S. average, and it's much higher than when you look at just the top 25 markets. And so we drive a ton of volume on the largest room base in the country, but yet there's still room to grow. That's the scale that we operate in.
Data, Attribution, and Marketing Complexity
GREG: How easily or are you able to measure the things you just talked about? So volume contribution was one, sales growth, and then also you mentioned revenue per, those feel like very tricky things to get a handle on in your environment.
KATE: So what is very interesting about my role, again, I came from my prior role at MGM Resorts, I ran a bunch of different aspects of marketing, including performance media, where I owned the data and I owned the customer. At the DMO level — or the destination marketing organization level — we don't own the transaction. I am driving volume and demand for property partners to capitalize on, to capture and to drive the conversion. So in terms of data at my fingertips, I have overall destination performance. So I know at a whole how all the operators performed, but I don't own the transaction. And from a marketing point of view, that gets tricky when you start to look at attribution based on very specific campaign performance.
GREG: I mean, listen, you know what I like, Kate? And I kind of heard you, too, in the pre-conversation there a little bit. What I thought I heard is that here's somebody who owns her business is what I was hearing. And you've just kind of said that same thing. So it feels like a very daunting thing for you to own the responsibility for that. I don't know. Does that feel funny to you? (laugh)
KATE: I wouldn't say daunting, but what we do matters. And at the end of the day, our marketing drives tourism. Tourism is the lifeblood of all of Southern Nevada. And so again, what we do matters immensely. And so I do take it very seriously. It's also fun at the same time. So I know it matters, but I know it's a lot of fun. I know I have the best product in the world to market and sell. It's exciting for me. I said it earlier, I pinch myself every day. It is an unbelievable job. I'm thankful for it, I'm grateful for it, and I'm humble because I do understand the impact of what it drives.
GREG: And obviously good given you appear to be maybe double what the average CMO lifespan is at six years. You're at six years, so ... I work with a lot of CMOs. It's a hard job to hold, right?
KATE: I think it's because it's so complicated. I do say it seems like it would be easy, but it is so complicated. And you started to hit on it earlier when you were trying to unpack in your head — I saw the wheels turning — all of our different audiences. So it's not just leisure, but it's business. And when you think about leisure, it's everyone from the budget-conscious traveler all the way to the ultra high-end luxury segment.
GREG: Totally.
KATE: And then on the flip side, we are also the number one trade show destination, gosh, for —
GREG: By forever.
KATE: 27 years running? Something ridiculous. We have the most group and meeting space than any other destination in the U.S. We drive the largest trade shows here. So think like CES.
GREG: I go to CES. It feels big.
KATE: It takes over the entire destination. No other destination can house a show that big. That is the power and the scale that we operate in. All of those things matter. It's very complicated because how you market to trying to close a piece of business to trying to get all of their attendees to show up every year is very different than marketing to a leisure traveler, especially in this economy where you've got the luxury segment just killing it. Any category, travel aside, luxury segment is outperforming and is really holding up the overall economy. But yet I still have a massive amount of volume, of room product, that appeals to that budget traveler. And right now, they're choosing to maybe not travel or stay closer to home because of the economic conditions domestically. It's understanding how to navigate everything that's going on globally because we're also a global destination as well as across the U.S. So it's definitely complicated, but I do love it and I understand the importance of what we do.
GREG: Yeah. I heard Bob Iger say something about the Disney parks. He said some people spend much of their life saving up the money to go to a Disney park. And I would think Vegas would be one of those destinations that everybody ... I mean, what percentage of Americans have been or not been to Vegas? Do you know off the top of your head by chance?
KATE: I don't. That's a great question.
GREG: It's hard to say because I sit in a business group, so I'm there for CES every year and other events that come along, have traveled there personally too. But I'm in a different class of traveler from the broad swath there, is what I'm thinking. So then you think about how many people really do ... Because it's such a diversity of things to do. I will tell you a funny thing, we actually had a whole different experience. I used to tell people this and they were always a little surprised. So when my kids were — when my girls, my twin girls — were young, like 5, 6, we would take them to Vegas. We lived in San Francisco at the time and we would take them there because it was just such a sensory overload. I mean, you had a pool, you had Circus Circus, there was a number of ... There was the MGM [that] had the lion exhibit, which I don't know is [still] there.
But there were so many things for them to do. It was just a great way to engage them. And so we loved it from that standpoint.
KATE: Yeah. I mean, Vegas is a spectacle for all ages at every level, no matter how you look at it, it is a spectacle. One of the differentiating factors about Vegas and hospitality is hospitality is at the core of what we do. And whether you're at, again, a Circus Circus, a downtown property, an off-strip property, or an iconic luxury property like a Wynn or a Bellagio, hospitality is something that every operator trains as the most important part of every single employee's job. Because again, it doesn't matter if you're a budget-conscious traveler or a high-end luxury traveler, you have saved for that trip and it is a special trip and you're here celebrating something even if it's a Tuesday afternoon. And that trip needs to be special. And so you'll see that in the way our employees treat every single visitor at every single property regardless of why they're here, because it matters and it drives repeat visitation.
KATE: So what is very interesting about my role, again, I came from my prior role at MGM Resorts, I ran a bunch of different aspects of marketing, including performance media, where I owned the data and I owned the customer. At the DMO level — or the destination marketing organization level — we don't own the transaction. I am driving volume and demand for property partners to capitalize on, to capture and to drive the conversion. So in terms of data at my fingertips, I have overall destination performance. So I know at a whole how all the operators performed, but I don't own the transaction. And from a marketing point of view, that gets tricky when you start to look at attribution based on very specific campaign performance.
GREG: I mean, listen, you know what I like, Kate? And I kind of heard you, too, in the pre-conversation there a little bit. What I thought I heard is that here's somebody who owns her business is what I was hearing. And you've just kind of said that same thing. So it feels like a very daunting thing for you to own the responsibility for that. I don't know. Does that feel funny to you? (laugh)
KATE: I wouldn't say daunting, but what we do matters. And at the end of the day, our marketing drives tourism. Tourism is the lifeblood of all of Southern Nevada. And so again, what we do matters immensely. And so I do take it very seriously. It's also fun at the same time. So I know it matters, but I know it's a lot of fun. I know I have the best product in the world to market and sell. It's exciting for me. I said it earlier, I pinch myself every day. It is an unbelievable job. I'm thankful for it, I'm grateful for it, and I'm humble because I do understand the impact of what it drives.
GREG: And obviously good given you appear to be maybe double what the average CMO lifespan is at six years. You're at six years, so ... I work with a lot of CMOs. It's a hard job to hold, right?
KATE: I think it's because it's so complicated. I do say it seems like it would be easy, but it is so complicated. And you started to hit on it earlier when you were trying to unpack in your head — I saw the wheels turning — all of our different audiences. So it's not just leisure, but it's business. And when you think about leisure, it's everyone from the budget-conscious traveler all the way to the ultra high-end luxury segment.
GREG: Totally.
KATE: And then on the flip side, we are also the number one trade show destination, gosh, for —
GREG: By forever.
KATE: 27 years running? Something ridiculous. We have the most group and meeting space than any other destination in the U.S. We drive the largest trade shows here. So think like CES.
GREG: I go to CES. It feels big.
KATE: It takes over the entire destination. No other destination can house a show that big. That is the power and the scale that we operate in. All of those things matter. It's very complicated because how you market to trying to close a piece of business to trying to get all of their attendees to show up every year is very different than marketing to a leisure traveler, especially in this economy where you've got the luxury segment just killing it. Any category, travel aside, luxury segment is outperforming and is really holding up the overall economy. But yet I still have a massive amount of volume, of room product, that appeals to that budget traveler. And right now, they're choosing to maybe not travel or stay closer to home because of the economic conditions domestically. It's understanding how to navigate everything that's going on globally because we're also a global destination as well as across the U.S. So it's definitely complicated, but I do love it and I understand the importance of what we do.
GREG: Yeah. I heard Bob Iger say something about the Disney parks. He said some people spend much of their life saving up the money to go to a Disney park. And I would think Vegas would be one of those destinations that everybody ... I mean, what percentage of Americans have been or not been to Vegas? Do you know off the top of your head by chance?
KATE: I don't. That's a great question.
GREG: It's hard to say because I sit in a business group, so I'm there for CES every year and other events that come along, have traveled there personally too. But I'm in a different class of traveler from the broad swath there, is what I'm thinking. So then you think about how many people really do ... Because it's such a diversity of things to do. I will tell you a funny thing, we actually had a whole different experience. I used to tell people this and they were always a little surprised. So when my kids were — when my girls, my twin girls — were young, like 5, 6, we would take them to Vegas. We lived in San Francisco at the time and we would take them there because it was just such a sensory overload. I mean, you had a pool, you had Circus Circus, there was a number of ... There was the MGM [that] had the lion exhibit, which I don't know is [still] there.
But there were so many things for them to do. It was just a great way to engage them. And so we loved it from that standpoint.
KATE: Yeah. I mean, Vegas is a spectacle for all ages at every level, no matter how you look at it, it is a spectacle. One of the differentiating factors about Vegas and hospitality is hospitality is at the core of what we do. And whether you're at, again, a Circus Circus, a downtown property, an off-strip property, or an iconic luxury property like a Wynn or a Bellagio, hospitality is something that every operator trains as the most important part of every single employee's job. Because again, it doesn't matter if you're a budget-conscious traveler or a high-end luxury traveler, you have saved for that trip and it is a special trip and you're here celebrating something even if it's a Tuesday afternoon. And that trip needs to be special. And so you'll see that in the way our employees treat every single visitor at every single property regardless of why they're here, because it matters and it drives repeat visitation.
Evolving "What Happens Here, Stays Here"
GREG: It's embedded in the culture, isn't it? Okay. So now we have to get to the fun thing here, which is first off, let's get this out of the way. What's the current tagline?
KATE: Well, this summer we are telling everybody to pack for Vegas. We are also using "Welcome to Fabulous."
GREG: Welcome to Fabulous, right. So that's the context. Okay. So listen, any long-standing advertising marketing person like myself or maybe any consumer in the world would know that what Vegas — equal to the fame for its hospitality, its hotels, its gambling — is the tagline: What happens here only happens here. That's a big shift to go from an iconic tagline like that. I mean, how do you make that? I don't know. Give some context of that. I want to talk a little bit about how you all made that decision at some point.
KATE: "What happens here stays here" was the original line. And then it evolved to "What happens here only happens here." Because it became the era of social media and cellphones in your hand that really what happens here doesn't stay here. It gets posted on social media and travels the world.
GREG: Okay. Okay. That was the change? Was in the age of mobile? Is that really what happened?
KATE: The age of mobile made us evolve to be, okay, well, what happens here only happens here because only Las Vegas pulls off the stunts that we pull off, pulls off the experiences that we pull off, has the depth and breadth of all the things that are here. And so this past fall we were pushing on, is there a new iteration of that? How else do we communicate Las Vegas and only Las Vegas is this unbelievable? And we went back to our roots. So when you think about the line, "Welcome to fabulous Las Vegas" —
GREG: Yes.
KATE: That is the message on the iconic welcome sign that sits at the very start of Las Vegas Boulevard.
GREG: Or on the desk behind you. Isn't that the iconic sign? There we go. (laugh)
KATE: This sign, this was installed in 1959. It's more than —
GREG: Is that right?
KATE: Don't make me do my math. More than 65 years old, right? Yep.
GREG: Yep, it is more than 65.
KATE: But it is more iconic and globally recognized literally across the world than many of our other assets.
GREG: Okay, got it.
KATE: And by far more than our previous tagline. And so we thought, okay, let's go back to our DNA and use that because it stands for ... "Fabulous," the spectacle that is Las Vegas. The "Welcome" is the hospitality nature that is in our DNA of welcoming our visitors in. And it's got the neon and the bright lights. People associate that with Las Vegas. So we use that as our platform for really all of our current work that's out in the market right now.
GREG: I think it would be really challenging to let go of what happens here, stays here, or only happens here. There's a little wink-wink kind of nod of the head. I'm not here to support or unsupport bad behavior. I don't care. But it's like it was so well known. It feels like, I don't know. How did the either 14 commissioners get together or did the agency ... Who said we think we got to evolve?
KATE: I think that started before me, actually, in terms of the evolution. And I would say we are evolving, we are not departing from. And so you will still see that line on some of our owned assets, on some of our content that we push out. From a sheer tagline point of view, I would also argue we don't just use "Welcome to fabulous Las Vegas" as a tagline. We have hundreds of messages in the market at any given time across the world. And so we're constantly rotating in and out and layering on. That's kind of one of the interesting truths about Las Vegas and through our evolution as to what modern Vegas is today. It's an evolution, not a departure. And so it's all these layers into defining who we are.
KATE: Well, this summer we are telling everybody to pack for Vegas. We are also using "Welcome to Fabulous."
GREG: Welcome to Fabulous, right. So that's the context. Okay. So listen, any long-standing advertising marketing person like myself or maybe any consumer in the world would know that what Vegas — equal to the fame for its hospitality, its hotels, its gambling — is the tagline: What happens here only happens here. That's a big shift to go from an iconic tagline like that. I mean, how do you make that? I don't know. Give some context of that. I want to talk a little bit about how you all made that decision at some point.
KATE: "What happens here stays here" was the original line. And then it evolved to "What happens here only happens here." Because it became the era of social media and cellphones in your hand that really what happens here doesn't stay here. It gets posted on social media and travels the world.
GREG: Okay. Okay. That was the change? Was in the age of mobile? Is that really what happened?
KATE: The age of mobile made us evolve to be, okay, well, what happens here only happens here because only Las Vegas pulls off the stunts that we pull off, pulls off the experiences that we pull off, has the depth and breadth of all the things that are here. And so this past fall we were pushing on, is there a new iteration of that? How else do we communicate Las Vegas and only Las Vegas is this unbelievable? And we went back to our roots. So when you think about the line, "Welcome to fabulous Las Vegas" —
GREG: Yes.
KATE: That is the message on the iconic welcome sign that sits at the very start of Las Vegas Boulevard.
GREG: Or on the desk behind you. Isn't that the iconic sign? There we go. (laugh)
KATE: This sign, this was installed in 1959. It's more than —
GREG: Is that right?
KATE: Don't make me do my math. More than 65 years old, right? Yep.
GREG: Yep, it is more than 65.
KATE: But it is more iconic and globally recognized literally across the world than many of our other assets.
GREG: Okay, got it.
KATE: And by far more than our previous tagline. And so we thought, okay, let's go back to our DNA and use that because it stands for ... "Fabulous," the spectacle that is Las Vegas. The "Welcome" is the hospitality nature that is in our DNA of welcoming our visitors in. And it's got the neon and the bright lights. People associate that with Las Vegas. So we use that as our platform for really all of our current work that's out in the market right now.
GREG: I think it would be really challenging to let go of what happens here, stays here, or only happens here. There's a little wink-wink kind of nod of the head. I'm not here to support or unsupport bad behavior. I don't care. But it's like it was so well known. It feels like, I don't know. How did the either 14 commissioners get together or did the agency ... Who said we think we got to evolve?
KATE: I think that started before me, actually, in terms of the evolution. And I would say we are evolving, we are not departing from. And so you will still see that line on some of our owned assets, on some of our content that we push out. From a sheer tagline point of view, I would also argue we don't just use "Welcome to fabulous Las Vegas" as a tagline. We have hundreds of messages in the market at any given time across the world. And so we're constantly rotating in and out and layering on. That's kind of one of the interesting truths about Las Vegas and through our evolution as to what modern Vegas is today. It's an evolution, not a departure. And so it's all these layers into defining who we are.
Driving Demand for a Category of One
GREG: Hey, Kate, it just occurred to me too, you're really not competitive with anybody. I mean, you're competitive for time — absolutely — you're competitive for ... But nobody has your product. This is not like Bounty versus Sparkle paper towels, which the differences are significant, maybe those two, but whatever. What does most drive the activity there? When you go, "Oh my God, I really got to get a little more volume." So certainly the trade convention stuff, but that's long term. What are you doing for campaigns? What are you looking at? What are you testing? What do you know really drives the activity?
KATE: First of all, we pride ourselves on being a category of one. So I don't have a traditional competitive set that other products might have. I do look at what other destinations are doing. I'm also looking at, you referenced Disney. I'm watching what Disney's doing. I'm watching what big entertainment companies are doing because it absolutely is a share of time, as you identified. And Vegas has long been an "and" destination. So you're still going to book your family trip to Hawaii that you've been planning all year long, but we are the and. You're also going to book a quick weekend getaway to Las Vegas, or you're also going to make sure you show up for this trade conference. So it really is an add-on, not a replacement of, which changes how we market.
GREG: Totally.
KATE: And so from a marketing point of view, if I'm looking at driving short-term volume pushes, I'm going to be super competitive on digitally targeting anybody that is out there looking for quick getaways or fun summer road trips or must-do things this summer.
I'm going to own all those keywords. I'm going to partner with all the OTAs and making sure that we are buying a share of voice against the active consumer. Somebody that's actively looking to shop travel, I'm there. I'm putting our ads up right in front of them because it's an easy decision. When you look at it from a cost point of view, I know we got a lot of negativity last summer around pricing.
GREG: Vegas has become expensive, right.
KATE: Honestly, every market has gone up significant. It's not unique to Las Vegas. And when you do price shopping head-to-head of us and any other destination, you're going to find we win from a value point of view and from what you're getting from your buck point of view. And you can spend as much as you want. If you want to do Vegas on $150, you can do Vegas on $150. That is not true for a New York, a San Diego, you name it.
GREG: No, $150 can barely get you in from JFK. Yes.
KATE: Right. (laugh) Exactly.
GREG: Kate, we do that on purpose because we really don't want people to come here to New York. That's part of the reason that exists. We've set it up that way as a part of the system. You may have not known that.
KATE: (laugh) Well, with the 150,000 hotel rooms, we want people to come to Vegas. We are constantly finding —
GREG: (laugh) We're open for business and fun.
KATE: Yeah, exactly. New reasons to come. It's one of the things that has made modern Las Vegas so unbelievable is the constant innovation. What entertainment is, what does it look like, what does it feel like? We are constantly on the forefront of that. Sphere is one example of that.
GREG: Exactly.
KATE: Unbelievable.
GREG: What a very big, expensive experiment. It was [James] Dolan who was behind that, right?
KATE: That's right. Yeah, that's right. And he hit a home run with it. We had a lot of naysayers at the very beginning as it was being constructed. And the second we turned that on — the exosphere — it captured the world's attention.
GREG: Sure did.
KATE: Everybody wanted to know what is going on in Las Vegas.
GREG: You probably had more free marketing for that than anything else in the world could have ever achieved.
KATE: Absolutely. It's funny, we were in London the week that the exoskeleton turned on, I believe that was 2023, July 2023. We were there marketing our first ever Las Vegas Grand Prix that was coming up November of 2023.
GREG: Oh, right. I remember, right, now you're F1. Yes.
KATE: Yes. And we went to go do this massive press blitz to talk about the race and how exciting it is. All of the media that we connected with wanted to know what the sphere was. It captured the world's attention. And then back later that year, in I think it was September of 2023, when they opened the doors to the first concert, which was U2 headlined it.
GREG: Yeah, I remember.
KATE: It exceeded expectations.
GREG: Crazy.
KATE: The bar was set so high from the exoskeleton and then it exceeded expectations, and it continues to really put the pressure on live concerts, live events, of how they can be even more immersive and more captivating. It's been phenomenal.
KATE: First of all, we pride ourselves on being a category of one. So I don't have a traditional competitive set that other products might have. I do look at what other destinations are doing. I'm also looking at, you referenced Disney. I'm watching what Disney's doing. I'm watching what big entertainment companies are doing because it absolutely is a share of time, as you identified. And Vegas has long been an "and" destination. So you're still going to book your family trip to Hawaii that you've been planning all year long, but we are the and. You're also going to book a quick weekend getaway to Las Vegas, or you're also going to make sure you show up for this trade conference. So it really is an add-on, not a replacement of, which changes how we market.
GREG: Totally.
KATE: And so from a marketing point of view, if I'm looking at driving short-term volume pushes, I'm going to be super competitive on digitally targeting anybody that is out there looking for quick getaways or fun summer road trips or must-do things this summer.
I'm going to own all those keywords. I'm going to partner with all the OTAs and making sure that we are buying a share of voice against the active consumer. Somebody that's actively looking to shop travel, I'm there. I'm putting our ads up right in front of them because it's an easy decision. When you look at it from a cost point of view, I know we got a lot of negativity last summer around pricing.
GREG: Vegas has become expensive, right.
KATE: Honestly, every market has gone up significant. It's not unique to Las Vegas. And when you do price shopping head-to-head of us and any other destination, you're going to find we win from a value point of view and from what you're getting from your buck point of view. And you can spend as much as you want. If you want to do Vegas on $150, you can do Vegas on $150. That is not true for a New York, a San Diego, you name it.
GREG: No, $150 can barely get you in from JFK. Yes.
KATE: Right. (laugh) Exactly.
GREG: Kate, we do that on purpose because we really don't want people to come here to New York. That's part of the reason that exists. We've set it up that way as a part of the system. You may have not known that.
KATE: (laugh) Well, with the 150,000 hotel rooms, we want people to come to Vegas. We are constantly finding —
GREG: (laugh) We're open for business and fun.
KATE: Yeah, exactly. New reasons to come. It's one of the things that has made modern Las Vegas so unbelievable is the constant innovation. What entertainment is, what does it look like, what does it feel like? We are constantly on the forefront of that. Sphere is one example of that.
GREG: Exactly.
KATE: Unbelievable.
GREG: What a very big, expensive experiment. It was [James] Dolan who was behind that, right?
KATE: That's right. Yeah, that's right. And he hit a home run with it. We had a lot of naysayers at the very beginning as it was being constructed. And the second we turned that on — the exosphere — it captured the world's attention.
GREG: Sure did.
KATE: Everybody wanted to know what is going on in Las Vegas.
GREG: You probably had more free marketing for that than anything else in the world could have ever achieved.
KATE: Absolutely. It's funny, we were in London the week that the exoskeleton turned on, I believe that was 2023, July 2023. We were there marketing our first ever Las Vegas Grand Prix that was coming up November of 2023.
GREG: Oh, right. I remember, right, now you're F1. Yes.
KATE: Yes. And we went to go do this massive press blitz to talk about the race and how exciting it is. All of the media that we connected with wanted to know what the sphere was. It captured the world's attention. And then back later that year, in I think it was September of 2023, when they opened the doors to the first concert, which was U2 headlined it.
GREG: Yeah, I remember.
KATE: It exceeded expectations.
GREG: Crazy.
KATE: The bar was set so high from the exoskeleton and then it exceeded expectations, and it continues to really put the pressure on live concerts, live events, of how they can be even more immersive and more captivating. It's been phenomenal.
The Best Marketing Advice Kate Ever Received
GREG: Yeah. No, I've been there to see it. It's unbelievably so dramatic. It really is just, it's a crazy whole thing that you can't even envision until you're there engulfed in it. Hey, Kate, are you able to disclose — and listen, we can cut this out later if you need to — but are you able to disclose the marketing budget for Las Vegas?
KATE: Because we're a government organization, we publicly go to the board and present our budgets every year. We spend about a $100 million on all things marketing for a year.
GREG: Wow.
KATE: And so that includes agencies, productions, sponsorships, some of our events that we bring. So it's not nearly as big as some of what I would call competitors when you think about other industries.
GREG: Yeah, it's not as big as a Meta or a Google, but you're a singular city. That's a very funny thing. So no, I actually think that's a pretty darn good size budget. I would've guessed somewhere towards that range. Yeah. Yeah. What is the best advice you've been given in your career? I always like to ask people, I'm always curious, is there anything that even maybe guided you to becoming a CMO or a more effective CMO or manager or whatever the case may be? But what have you heard along your journey, your path, that you though was really instrumental and valuable to you?
KATE: Gosh, I have received so much great advice through the years — through the decades, really — and it's about taking nuggets of those and making it my own. But one of the things that I have shared with my teams is "use the filter." Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Pause, figure out, is this a priority? Is this a good use of not just budget —
GREG: (laugh) Yeah.
KATE: But of the time and energy of the team? Is it going to achieve our goals? Because we get a million proposals a day of things that we should be doing in Las Vegas. And again, just because we can do it doesn't necessarily mean that we should do it. So I think being thoughtful on prioritization is really important. And so somebody told me a version of that early on in my career and I've just sort of hung on to that because it is so critical for especially a marketer that is constantly fielding new ideas.
GREG: Do you have a testing matrix you use or some dynamic to look at new ideas? I'm curious if there's a process you go through to consider things before you just launch into them, or I don't know.
KATE: It really depends on what it is. If it's about a new event that is coming to town, one of the things we look at is has it been here before? I don't want to spend money on something that's already been coming that they're just looking for a handout. Are they proven or is this an incubator for a new idea? I'm not here to invest in potential new ideas. Is there a marketing plan in place for it or am I it? Because again, I'm not the marketer for somebody else's event. I'm here to bring somebody else's event to town that's going to drive visitation. Is it layering in during a need period? So middle of the summer, really important. Can we layer it in or is it a program or a sponsorship that will layer in in that timeframe? Who's the audience it's reaching? Making sure that we're not at any given moment over-indexing against one audience.
Because again, we really market to such a wide range of consumers. There are quite a number of layers that we look at when we're making decisions on how to spend dollars, whether it's events or sponsorships or even ad buys. It really comes down to did we define what we're trying to achieve and does this layer into it? That's a really big one.
KATE: Because we're a government organization, we publicly go to the board and present our budgets every year. We spend about a $100 million on all things marketing for a year.
GREG: Wow.
KATE: And so that includes agencies, productions, sponsorships, some of our events that we bring. So it's not nearly as big as some of what I would call competitors when you think about other industries.
GREG: Yeah, it's not as big as a Meta or a Google, but you're a singular city. That's a very funny thing. So no, I actually think that's a pretty darn good size budget. I would've guessed somewhere towards that range. Yeah. Yeah. What is the best advice you've been given in your career? I always like to ask people, I'm always curious, is there anything that even maybe guided you to becoming a CMO or a more effective CMO or manager or whatever the case may be? But what have you heard along your journey, your path, that you though was really instrumental and valuable to you?
KATE: Gosh, I have received so much great advice through the years — through the decades, really — and it's about taking nuggets of those and making it my own. But one of the things that I have shared with my teams is "use the filter." Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Pause, figure out, is this a priority? Is this a good use of not just budget —
GREG: (laugh) Yeah.
KATE: But of the time and energy of the team? Is it going to achieve our goals? Because we get a million proposals a day of things that we should be doing in Las Vegas. And again, just because we can do it doesn't necessarily mean that we should do it. So I think being thoughtful on prioritization is really important. And so somebody told me a version of that early on in my career and I've just sort of hung on to that because it is so critical for especially a marketer that is constantly fielding new ideas.
GREG: Do you have a testing matrix you use or some dynamic to look at new ideas? I'm curious if there's a process you go through to consider things before you just launch into them, or I don't know.
KATE: It really depends on what it is. If it's about a new event that is coming to town, one of the things we look at is has it been here before? I don't want to spend money on something that's already been coming that they're just looking for a handout. Are they proven or is this an incubator for a new idea? I'm not here to invest in potential new ideas. Is there a marketing plan in place for it or am I it? Because again, I'm not the marketer for somebody else's event. I'm here to bring somebody else's event to town that's going to drive visitation. Is it layering in during a need period? So middle of the summer, really important. Can we layer it in or is it a program or a sponsorship that will layer in in that timeframe? Who's the audience it's reaching? Making sure that we're not at any given moment over-indexing against one audience.
Because again, we really market to such a wide range of consumers. There are quite a number of layers that we look at when we're making decisions on how to spend dollars, whether it's events or sponsorships or even ad buys. It really comes down to did we define what we're trying to achieve and does this layer into it? That's a really big one.
Experiential Marketing: F1, Shoeys, and BTS
GREG: Is there an idea that you thought, boy, that's probably not something we should prioritize, but for whatever reason you chose to test it and it turned out to be much bigger than you thought it was going to be? I always love the surprises that us as marketers get along the way because we are in that kind of business. It's not really hits business, but there is a hits orientation to how marketing sometimes operates.
KATE: We have the luxury of being able to try a lot of different things at small scale and then blow them out if they perform really well. One of the things, gosh, this actually started with the first Las Vegas Grand Prix. We did this Shoey drop. Actually, I have one up on my shelf if we can see that purple shoe. And so what it is is we produced these racing shoes and, in partnership with the Las Vegas Grand Prix, we sent out push notifications the night before we would do a drop, and we would do a drop the week of the race, we did four different ones, and we would send consumers to different properties to go stand in line for this limited-edition Shoey. We though, okay, whatever, let's try it, see if it works. It blew up. We had people waiting in line for three hours before we announced that we're going to start giving away Shoeys at 9:00 AM.
They were in line for hours that wrapped around the casino floors. It was a really small idea that we're like, "Hey, let's try it." We have since used that idea of a drop with different fan bases. Number one, we've done it for every Las Vegas Grand Prix so far. We've had three of them. It's an annual event on our calendar. We did it for BTS when they came into town for their global tour. Every single event, whether it's a sporting event, a concert event, if there's a massive fandom that's associated with it, we really lean into the notion of drops. Again, it started as a really small idea and we have scaled it because it works so well.
GREG: Wow, love it. Yeah, that's great. I mean, yeah, who would've guessed? Hard to do measurement on something like that though, right? Or no?
KATE: No, not really. We measure overall fan conversation. So we'll look at social, how many people are posting images, talking about it, the overall conversation around, for that, the shoe we drop.
GREG: Oh, okay.
KATE: And that is just a sign of it creates excitement, which helps build the brand that, for us, we strongly believe — and we continually prove this out — that when a major concert or a major event comes and holds their event in Las Vegas, from a business point of view, they get better attendance than if it's a rotating event. They get more engagement from the people that come, and more overall excitement and buzz for it. So it makes their events better and it makes Las Vegas this sort of magnetic destination that everybody wants to come to. And so I referenced BTS. What's interesting is when BTS came here in, I believe it was in 2022, they sold out.
They did two full weekends of shows. So they had four shows, sold them out in Allegiant Stadium, and they built an overrun livestream of the concert in another arena in the market and sold those out. So basically the equivalent of eight sold-out shows in this market. But this destination, we turned all the colors on all of our buildings purple. We put up special marquee creative across all the marquees up and down the strip, welcoming the BTS Army is what they're called. And that drove so much conversation online. The band and their management company were blown away. So this year when they did their global tour, the management company for BTS reached out to us and asked if they could partner with us.
GREG: Wow.
KATE: So we were the only city outside of their hometown in South Korea that was designated as what they called it as The City, the BTS The City. It's an anchor stop on their tour. And so it gave us this massive global spotlight that, number one, money couldn't buy. But number two, because we leaned in to treating their fans and all of their followers and their fandom with the welcoming that is the DNA of Las Vegas, that welcoming hospitality aspect, making them feel like their trip is so important — because it is — the band recognized that and then brought even more business back on their global tour this year. So that's the impact of how we see this all come full circle.
GREG: Kate, you should do this job for a hundred years. It really would be —
KATE: I love it!
GREG: And it shows, by the way, which I really like. And it's not just the marketing stuff. I mean, there's a complexity to this. There's a data challenge to this. There's a measurement challenge to this. There's a sort of entertaining kind of a guesstimate story. Who would've thought that would be so big or that the Shoey would be a big deal? I mean, there's just so many kind of crazy things. I am sure you spend half a year going, wow, where'd that come from? So your job is in some regards is to find a way almost to say yes. It feels like if you can, that it sort of fits in. But with some criteria because you're a little too popular, you're going to get a lot of probably dreck within that, I guess.
KATE: What's unique about my role is it's not typically me and my teams executing something.
GREG: How big is the team? How many people, by the way?
KATE: We have about 30 people and then we have agency partners, but really my team is all the marketing teams at all the properties. And so when we come up with an idea, we got to go make sure that we're bringing the entire destination along with us because it's those marquees that we turned purple, those buildings that we turned purple for BTS, that's not my building or my assets. It's bringing others along with you. That's what drives the scale of a great idea. For us and generally just for advice, it's bring others along with you because that's where the success of your idea is going to blossom is if everybody buys into it. Another example, actually, on that front right now, it's America 250, right?
GREG: Yes. Let's not miss an opportunity to promote Vegas travel in the month of July. Go ahead. Yes.
KATE: There we go. Yes, I'm going to do it.
GREG: Exactly, there, I love it. Go.
KATE: We're not the destination that you associate with for 4th of July or patriotic. You think D.C., you think Boston with the Boston Pops, or you think beach cities for fireworks. Vegas is not really a part of that consideration. Well, we had this crazy idea. Well, first of all, we're like, we got to do fireworks on 4th of July. We have to. It's the 250th anniversary milestone of this country. It's not just fireworks on 4th of July. We're like, well, what would Vegas do? Well, Vegas would do fireworks all summer long. So we launched back in the first Saturday in June, we had said we're doing fireworks every Saturday through summer to make sure that we are capitalizing on this celebration milestone for our country because we know you might have your 4th of July plans booked, but come any other weekend and come celebrate here. That's what Vegas is about.
And I had to go around to all the CEOs and say, "Hey, we got this wild idea. We're going to pay for fireworks every single weekend in summer. We need your help." Because it's, number one, I shoot them off of their rooftops. Number two, I'm displacing visitors because I need a handful of rooms for our pyrotechnics, our safety guys, our fire guys, to all be housed in the properties. So there's a lot of collaboration —
GREG: A lot.
KATE: That it takes to pull off the crazy stunts that we do. But that's this market. Everybody's game, everybody is excited because they understand that is what Vegas is about. It's the spectacle, the only Vegas strategy, right?
KATE: We have the luxury of being able to try a lot of different things at small scale and then blow them out if they perform really well. One of the things, gosh, this actually started with the first Las Vegas Grand Prix. We did this Shoey drop. Actually, I have one up on my shelf if we can see that purple shoe. And so what it is is we produced these racing shoes and, in partnership with the Las Vegas Grand Prix, we sent out push notifications the night before we would do a drop, and we would do a drop the week of the race, we did four different ones, and we would send consumers to different properties to go stand in line for this limited-edition Shoey. We though, okay, whatever, let's try it, see if it works. It blew up. We had people waiting in line for three hours before we announced that we're going to start giving away Shoeys at 9:00 AM.
They were in line for hours that wrapped around the casino floors. It was a really small idea that we're like, "Hey, let's try it." We have since used that idea of a drop with different fan bases. Number one, we've done it for every Las Vegas Grand Prix so far. We've had three of them. It's an annual event on our calendar. We did it for BTS when they came into town for their global tour. Every single event, whether it's a sporting event, a concert event, if there's a massive fandom that's associated with it, we really lean into the notion of drops. Again, it started as a really small idea and we have scaled it because it works so well.
GREG: Wow, love it. Yeah, that's great. I mean, yeah, who would've guessed? Hard to do measurement on something like that though, right? Or no?
KATE: No, not really. We measure overall fan conversation. So we'll look at social, how many people are posting images, talking about it, the overall conversation around, for that, the shoe we drop.
GREG: Oh, okay.
KATE: And that is just a sign of it creates excitement, which helps build the brand that, for us, we strongly believe — and we continually prove this out — that when a major concert or a major event comes and holds their event in Las Vegas, from a business point of view, they get better attendance than if it's a rotating event. They get more engagement from the people that come, and more overall excitement and buzz for it. So it makes their events better and it makes Las Vegas this sort of magnetic destination that everybody wants to come to. And so I referenced BTS. What's interesting is when BTS came here in, I believe it was in 2022, they sold out.
They did two full weekends of shows. So they had four shows, sold them out in Allegiant Stadium, and they built an overrun livestream of the concert in another arena in the market and sold those out. So basically the equivalent of eight sold-out shows in this market. But this destination, we turned all the colors on all of our buildings purple. We put up special marquee creative across all the marquees up and down the strip, welcoming the BTS Army is what they're called. And that drove so much conversation online. The band and their management company were blown away. So this year when they did their global tour, the management company for BTS reached out to us and asked if they could partner with us.
GREG: Wow.
KATE: So we were the only city outside of their hometown in South Korea that was designated as what they called it as The City, the BTS The City. It's an anchor stop on their tour. And so it gave us this massive global spotlight that, number one, money couldn't buy. But number two, because we leaned in to treating their fans and all of their followers and their fandom with the welcoming that is the DNA of Las Vegas, that welcoming hospitality aspect, making them feel like their trip is so important — because it is — the band recognized that and then brought even more business back on their global tour this year. So that's the impact of how we see this all come full circle.
GREG: Kate, you should do this job for a hundred years. It really would be —
KATE: I love it!
GREG: And it shows, by the way, which I really like. And it's not just the marketing stuff. I mean, there's a complexity to this. There's a data challenge to this. There's a measurement challenge to this. There's a sort of entertaining kind of a guesstimate story. Who would've thought that would be so big or that the Shoey would be a big deal? I mean, there's just so many kind of crazy things. I am sure you spend half a year going, wow, where'd that come from? So your job is in some regards is to find a way almost to say yes. It feels like if you can, that it sort of fits in. But with some criteria because you're a little too popular, you're going to get a lot of probably dreck within that, I guess.
KATE: What's unique about my role is it's not typically me and my teams executing something.
GREG: How big is the team? How many people, by the way?
KATE: We have about 30 people and then we have agency partners, but really my team is all the marketing teams at all the properties. And so when we come up with an idea, we got to go make sure that we're bringing the entire destination along with us because it's those marquees that we turned purple, those buildings that we turned purple for BTS, that's not my building or my assets. It's bringing others along with you. That's what drives the scale of a great idea. For us and generally just for advice, it's bring others along with you because that's where the success of your idea is going to blossom is if everybody buys into it. Another example, actually, on that front right now, it's America 250, right?
GREG: Yes. Let's not miss an opportunity to promote Vegas travel in the month of July. Go ahead. Yes.
KATE: There we go. Yes, I'm going to do it.
GREG: Exactly, there, I love it. Go.
KATE: We're not the destination that you associate with for 4th of July or patriotic. You think D.C., you think Boston with the Boston Pops, or you think beach cities for fireworks. Vegas is not really a part of that consideration. Well, we had this crazy idea. Well, first of all, we're like, we got to do fireworks on 4th of July. We have to. It's the 250th anniversary milestone of this country. It's not just fireworks on 4th of July. We're like, well, what would Vegas do? Well, Vegas would do fireworks all summer long. So we launched back in the first Saturday in June, we had said we're doing fireworks every Saturday through summer to make sure that we are capitalizing on this celebration milestone for our country because we know you might have your 4th of July plans booked, but come any other weekend and come celebrate here. That's what Vegas is about.
And I had to go around to all the CEOs and say, "Hey, we got this wild idea. We're going to pay for fireworks every single weekend in summer. We need your help." Because it's, number one, I shoot them off of their rooftops. Number two, I'm displacing visitors because I need a handful of rooms for our pyrotechnics, our safety guys, our fire guys, to all be housed in the properties. So there's a lot of collaboration —
GREG: A lot.
KATE: That it takes to pull off the crazy stunts that we do. But that's this market. Everybody's game, everybody is excited because they understand that is what Vegas is about. It's the spectacle, the only Vegas strategy, right?
Measuring Long-Term Brand Value vs. ROI
GREG: Oh my God, Kate, you're just making every other marketer jealous. Okay. So listen, marketing has a lot of challenges. I made some reference to that when I said earlier that you've been at the job twice as long as the average CMO. I don't know if that's really true, but let's just go with that for a moment. And I know that marketing, I mean, listen, I have a board of CMOs. I know how they look at the business and the challenges that we have. And there's a lot of complexity to our business right now. We're just in that state. Okay. But I guess as you look out and think, what do you think marketing either doesn't fully appreciate? What doesn't it understand? What do you think we could be just so much better at if we would double down and go after this?
I don't know, it's kind of a wide open. And again, I told you, I'm a trade association, an industry body, looking for stuff to go fix. And so I'm always curious to hear from the seat you sit in, you wish was more or that we all were more. I don't know. Go at that any way you want. Get started.
KATE: One of the challenges that we have as an industry is understanding the long-term impact of brand.
GREG: Agreed.
KATE: And the importance of brand.
GREG: Agreed.
KATE: It's so easy to look at immediate numbers from an immediate hit of ... [In] the Shoey example, I knew how much social conversation there was, I knew how many people stood in line, how long they stood in line for. I knew the immediate pop of that.
But understanding the lasting implication of how we made those fans feel, the overall experience when they were here, how that pays to the overall health of the brand, it's hard. As marketers, we are so focused on trying to show the ROI of, hey, I drove — for us — six billion impressions this year, a billion more than last year. Paid impressions. I paid for those and we were thoughtful on how we did them and made sure we were being really strategic around it. But it's like impressions are super measurable, clicks, referrals to our properties. Those are all immediate and a knee-jerk reaction to a moment in time. But understanding how those campaigns or those efforts affected the overall brand halo, we're not really good at that. I don't really know how to crack that. And it has huge implications. How much money do I spend in brand marketing versus events or activations or sponsorships?
I can optimize my dollars within a bucket, but not across all of them. And that would be very helpful to [know]. If you guys can figure that out, I'm all ears.
GREG: So Kate, listen, I think I told you earlier that I've now asked that question four or five dozen times. What do you think we need to fix? And the funny part of that is that the answer is different almost every time. The one that does come up a couple of times is just what you've just said. What is the value of brand and how do I know what that is? So by the way, we have shed light on that and I actually do know the answer. I don't know what it would be for what you are doing. And I suspect at some level it's sort of situational, but you're right. And it's kind of funny, isn't it, Kate, that all these years that we've been marketers, that question has been out there and yet we as an industry hadn't ... I think there'd been some attempt to answer, but not conclusive, right?
I don't know, it's kind of a wide open. And again, I told you, I'm a trade association, an industry body, looking for stuff to go fix. And so I'm always curious to hear from the seat you sit in, you wish was more or that we all were more. I don't know. Go at that any way you want. Get started.
KATE: One of the challenges that we have as an industry is understanding the long-term impact of brand.
GREG: Agreed.
KATE: And the importance of brand.
GREG: Agreed.
KATE: It's so easy to look at immediate numbers from an immediate hit of ... [In] the Shoey example, I knew how much social conversation there was, I knew how many people stood in line, how long they stood in line for. I knew the immediate pop of that.
But understanding the lasting implication of how we made those fans feel, the overall experience when they were here, how that pays to the overall health of the brand, it's hard. As marketers, we are so focused on trying to show the ROI of, hey, I drove — for us — six billion impressions this year, a billion more than last year. Paid impressions. I paid for those and we were thoughtful on how we did them and made sure we were being really strategic around it. But it's like impressions are super measurable, clicks, referrals to our properties. Those are all immediate and a knee-jerk reaction to a moment in time. But understanding how those campaigns or those efforts affected the overall brand halo, we're not really good at that. I don't really know how to crack that. And it has huge implications. How much money do I spend in brand marketing versus events or activations or sponsorships?
I can optimize my dollars within a bucket, but not across all of them. And that would be very helpful to [know]. If you guys can figure that out, I'm all ears.
GREG: So Kate, listen, I think I told you earlier that I've now asked that question four or five dozen times. What do you think we need to fix? And the funny part of that is that the answer is different almost every time. The one that does come up a couple of times is just what you've just said. What is the value of brand and how do I know what that is? So by the way, we have shed light on that and I actually do know the answer. I don't know what it would be for what you are doing. And I suspect at some level it's sort of situational, but you're right. And it's kind of funny, isn't it, Kate, that all these years that we've been marketers, that question has been out there and yet we as an industry hadn't ... I think there'd been some attempt to answer, but not conclusive, right?
The Brand Impact of Hosting the Super Bowl
KATE: Yeah, I think that the conclusive part is really the issue. We can look at, hey, we went and pitched Super Bowl to come to Vegas. We hosted our inaugural Super Bowl. We were able to measure without a doubt the economic impact of having that event in Las Vegas. And it rose all tides. It was phenomenal to the point where all my operators were like, "Go get another one," which we did. We just secured our next Super Bowl, which is great for 2029.
GREG: 2029, is that right? Okay, good to know.
KATE: Yeah, 2029, so we're excited about that. But the question is, okay, is it better to have a Super Bowl every single year? It performed great from that weekend, but what did that do from an overall year-round ... My product is 365 days a year, 24/7.
GREG: Totally, totally.
KATE: The investment for Super Bowl, that was a week of events. I argued that it also was a marketing platform that led the entire season leading up to Super Bowl being hosted here, which is great. And it reinforced a single positioning of Vegas that we are the sports and entertainment capital of the world, right?
GREG: Yes. Yep.
KATE: Super, great, super important for us. The question is, do I have, do I — it's not really a real question [because] the Super Bowl's not going to come here every year — but do you do that every single year? That's very expensive.
GREG: But F1 is another very big noticeable event at some level.
KATE: Absolutely. And that is on our —
GREG: The Sphere was in its own way a sort of Super Bowl of entertainment of some kind. I don't know, that's a weird way to put it.
KATE: It absolutely is. So Las Vegas Grand Prix, working with Formula One, have got that as an annual event on our calendar through 2037. We just announced that 10-year extension. We are thrilled because that has the economic impact of hosting a Super Bowl. And now we do it every single year. It is the weekend before Thanksgiving every single year and it took one of our bottom-performing weekends on our calendar and it has now made it one of the top-performing weekends.
GREG: Wow, that's great.
KATE: Boom, that's phenomenal.
GREG: Great.
KATE: My challenge is I can't afford to do a massive marquee event on every single weekend. There is a level of brand building that has to happen to drive the evergreen. It goes back to the, what is that year-round lift that I get from marquee events? How much should I spend on events versus how much I should spend on brand marketing?
GREG: Okay, so let me ask you a couple questions around it. So what is brand marketing to you in Las Vegas, by the way? So that's one question. And the other one is, listen, I can't even imagine the pressure you have for short-term given the commissioners, the council, that you deal with. So how do you make the decision between long and short sometimes?
KATE: Brand marketing in my role comes in many different forms and many different sizes. Five years ago, even, I think people would say it was your primetime broadcast TV commercials.
GREG: Yeah, it was a TV ad.
GREG: 2029, is that right? Okay, good to know.
KATE: Yeah, 2029, so we're excited about that. But the question is, okay, is it better to have a Super Bowl every single year? It performed great from that weekend, but what did that do from an overall year-round ... My product is 365 days a year, 24/7.
GREG: Totally, totally.
KATE: The investment for Super Bowl, that was a week of events. I argued that it also was a marketing platform that led the entire season leading up to Super Bowl being hosted here, which is great. And it reinforced a single positioning of Vegas that we are the sports and entertainment capital of the world, right?
GREG: Yes. Yep.
KATE: Super, great, super important for us. The question is, do I have, do I — it's not really a real question [because] the Super Bowl's not going to come here every year — but do you do that every single year? That's very expensive.
GREG: But F1 is another very big noticeable event at some level.
KATE: Absolutely. And that is on our —
GREG: The Sphere was in its own way a sort of Super Bowl of entertainment of some kind. I don't know, that's a weird way to put it.
KATE: It absolutely is. So Las Vegas Grand Prix, working with Formula One, have got that as an annual event on our calendar through 2037. We just announced that 10-year extension. We are thrilled because that has the economic impact of hosting a Super Bowl. And now we do it every single year. It is the weekend before Thanksgiving every single year and it took one of our bottom-performing weekends on our calendar and it has now made it one of the top-performing weekends.
GREG: Wow, that's great.
KATE: Boom, that's phenomenal.
GREG: Great.
KATE: My challenge is I can't afford to do a massive marquee event on every single weekend. There is a level of brand building that has to happen to drive the evergreen. It goes back to the, what is that year-round lift that I get from marquee events? How much should I spend on events versus how much I should spend on brand marketing?
GREG: Okay, so let me ask you a couple questions around it. So what is brand marketing to you in Las Vegas, by the way? So that's one question. And the other one is, listen, I can't even imagine the pressure you have for short-term given the commissioners, the council, that you deal with. So how do you make the decision between long and short sometimes?
KATE: Brand marketing in my role comes in many different forms and many different sizes. Five years ago, even, I think people would say it was your primetime broadcast TV commercials.
GREG: Yeah, it was a TV ad.
Brand Health Tracking and the "Pack for Vegas" Campaign
KATE: It's not. It's not. I think for us, brand is how do you show up 24/7, 365, in a non-packaged-up sea of sameness? So I'm not pushing out the same stuff over and over again. It's about being relevant to whichever audiences you're talking to, but in a way that is authentic to who we are. I mean, that is not a very clear-cut answer for you, but for us, brand is being relevant and being out there to all those different audiences and finding a way to connect. That's what brand marketing is for me.
GREG: You talked about the Super Bowl being brand, and then you also talked about then here your focus on TV ads, which is the old way of the world, so I understand that. And then I suspect there's a huge amount of digital. How do you look at all those different contributions to brand? I mean, I would think it would be hard to do the one-off of a Super Bowl. That would be really difficult. I mean, you can measure that. I've done stuff like that. It's hard to do. Is it around brand advertising that you just run in the marketplace on a repetitive basis? It's trying to keep an orientation to your key ... And there's probably key markets, it's going to be Los Angeles, maybe San Francisco, probably New York, others.
KATE: We have probably one of the longest-running brand health surveys than probably most brands out there.
GREG: Oh, wow.
KATE: We go back decades where we are in field every single week across the United States.
GREG: Really?
KATE: Asking about ... Trying to really understand the current health of the brand. Are you aware of us? What do you think of us? What's your intent to travel to Las Vegas? That is really important versus what's your intent to travel period.
GREG: Yeah. What's your intent to travel [and] what's your intent to travel here would be the big questions, I would think, right? Yep.
KATE: Exactly. We look at it from drive markets versus fly markets, just overall awareness of us, awareness of our ads, favorability of our ads. We're looking at all those. That's our brand health monitor. So we are looking at that at any given time. And what we have noticed is it's not just your traditional broadcast spend that influences those numbers. So I think one of the most important tools in any marketer's toolkit is your PR machine. And so driving earned media headlines is so important. And so if we are actively out there talking about what's new or what's going on in Las Vegas, that has an impact very similar to an ad campaign. But it has a greater impact because it's other people talking about your brand. So you get a little bit more credit for it versus if it's a branded newspaper ad saying, hey, here are all the new things that we've got in our market.
You get somebody else to write about and talk about it. The power of that is really important. So it's a long way of saying brand marketing comes in lots of different forms. Earned media is a really important one of them, but ultimately we're using that brand health tracker to see the impact of all of these things going on. I can't isolate one individual item, but all of these things influence it, which is fantastic and it's important to understand that component.
GREG: And so what's featured in there? What are you putting in the brand ads? Can you talk a little bit about what those look like? And I know you do a fair amount of testing around your ads too, you said, right?
KATE: Yeah, we do. We do a ton of ad testing. So before it goes out, we know how consumers are going to react to it. And then as part of that brand health survey that we have out constantly in field, we're also asking them, "Have you seen the ads? Do you like the ads?" And if it starts to taper off, we'll pull it and switch it out.
GREG: So you're looking at, "we're out on it" really fast.
KATE: Yeah, absolutely. So our current campaign, and I'll share them with you so you guys can play them, but we've got these series, we've got six 15-second spots. We've launched three of them so far. They're called Pack for Vegas. And it's about the excitement and buildup of people packing for their trip to Vegas because it's this permission of you can be whoever you want to be when you come to Las Vegas. No judgment, just come and have a great time. So there is literally this one ... And it harkens back to the what happens here, stays here campaign where it's a little of that wink and the nod that you were talking about. So one of the spots is this woman going through TSA. You've got a TSA agent looking skeptical, trying to figure out what is in this woman's suitcase. You don't know it's a woman.
You don't know anything about her as he's looking and you see these facial expressions. And finally he gets this nod of approval as he figures it out and looks at her and you cut to this girl, she's like, "Yeah." And it says, "Pack for Vegas," like smash-cut, big logo, super fun. You still don't know what's in her suitcase. It doesn't matter. It's just permission and go have fun. Go have a great time. So that comedy wink and a nod, it's back. We've got three of those spots running. We've got another three that we're going to start rolling out late summer. So it's fun. That's the current campaign that's out there right now along with, actually, a sizzle reel, which we call our product spot. And so we've got a sizzle reel that ends with the same "Pack for Vegas" smash-cut logo, and it shows the breadth and depth of everything that's going on in Vegas this summer.
So I call it my product spot. Our sizzle reel is our product spot because it's visually showcasing here's all the different amazing resorts and pool parties and nightclubs and day clubs and shopping and entertainment, you name it. It's happening right now in Vegas and it showcases the fireworks, and that spot's running too. And what's interesting is that spot is actually testing better than my brand spots. My brand spots are still testing very high, but that spot's testing higher. And I think it's because it's the combination of all these things and it's not just a singular, hey, what do you think about this? But you're getting that emotional feeling of, yeah, I want to go to Vegas from the TSA agent spot all the way down to the reasons you have to go to Vegas, the hardworking sizzle spot. All those things together are just, they're firing on all cylinders and I'm seeing my intent to want to visit Vegas rise.
So that's all super positive. Those are the metrics I'm looking for from my marketing campaigns.
GREG: Hey Kate, I'm listening to you here and thinking a little bit, and MMA has done some research around this. I'm curious, to what degree are you able to personalize ads? And the reason I'm asking that question is because you're right, a lot of people come for different reasons. They're going to be budget travelers. There's going to be those looking for luxury. There's those who are there for gambling. There's those who are there for the shows, those who are just there for maybe the weekend away and maybe out dining. I mean, there's just so many. There's those who are for an intense party experience, the clubs. I mean, there's so much to do. We have done a bunch of machine learning-based personalization that we have found to be dramatically powerful. And we've not had anybody really push the personalization in the way we'd want. And by the way, what this is doing, which is interesting, is that it's a little bit of a heat-seeking missile.
You create the creative, it goes and finds the cohorts that that's going to matter to. And the performance is two, three, four X to business as usual. It's pretty crazy.
How do you think about a mix of portfolio of products and interests? Because people could be really different. Even mine, like I mentioned earlier, we brought my 5-year-old twin girls there sometimes.
KATE: Every trip to Vegas is incredibly different for every single person.
GREG: Absolutely.
KATE: What you're coming for this weekend will also be very different than what you're coming for in three months from now.
GREG: It could change, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
KATE: So digital signals are really important in helping us figure out what creative we're deploying to what target groups or what personas. We generally go and produce in any campaign that we're doing, you've got a variety of different assets that we're producing based on age or interest, things like that. It is through sequential messaging that we're changing out what you're seeing next based on how you're engaging with that ad.
GREG: Listen, Kate, I can't thank you enough for doing this. I knew it was an interesting story. I had talked to someone on your team way back when. I don't know, it's been a few years now and stuff. And I remember thinking, wow, that's a very crazy kind of thing to have to go figure out. And fun and complex.
KATE: It's absolutely fun. It's complex. There's a lot of layers to what we do. It's very dynamic. But at the end of the day, it's like a marketer's dream because there's so many segments, so many versions of our product, so many audiences, so many reasons for why people are traveling. It's just —
GREG: And your biz dev, which makes it sound boring, is entertainment-oriented. The things you're doing with the fireworks or anything else, it's all about ... So you have this very unusual mix. I don't really like working with entertainment companies very well. They can hear this. That's fine. The issue is because they don't make science- or fact-based marketing decisions. They do whatever Tom Cruise wanted them to do, and I find that kind of annoying because it's not based on good marketing, but you're having to do great marketing with a tinge of this entertainment sort of jack-it-all-up kind of a thing that could happen with some of the programs you try to figure out.
KATE: That's exactly right. We got to do things on the scale of spectacle, on the scale of Vegas.
GREG: And then you have to do it at Vegas scale. Yeah, exactly.
KATE: And then we have to reinvent it the next time around.
GREG: Hey, Kate, we're both wrong. It's actually Vegas fabulous is what it needs to get to.
KATE: There you go. (laugh)
GREG: Okay, listen.
KATE: I'm going to steal that.
GREG: I can't thank you enough for being on Building Better CMOs. Thank you very much.
KATE: Thank you so much, Greg.
GREG: Thanks to Kate Wik for coming on Building Better CMOs. Check the description of this episode for links to connect with Kate. If you liked this episode, you might also really enjoy my conversation with Andrea Brimmer, the chief marketing PR officer of Ally Financial. We talked all about how Ally invests equally in men's and women's sports, the research that MMA and Ally have done to bring data into brand marketing, and what it takes to transition from account manager to marketing leader. You can find that episode on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you're listening to me now. At the Marketing Media Alliance, we're working to make marketing matter more through conferences, research, and education. If you want to know more about the MMA, visit mmaglobal.com. You can also email me directly, greg@mmaglobal.com. Don't forget, Building Better CMOs is now on YouTube. Just go to bettercmos.com/youTube to start watching.
Our producer and podcast consultant is Eric Johnson from lightningpod.fm. Artwork is by Jason Chase, and a very special thanks to Angela Gray and Dan Whiting. This is Greg Stuart, I'll see you in two weeks.
GREG: You talked about the Super Bowl being brand, and then you also talked about then here your focus on TV ads, which is the old way of the world, so I understand that. And then I suspect there's a huge amount of digital. How do you look at all those different contributions to brand? I mean, I would think it would be hard to do the one-off of a Super Bowl. That would be really difficult. I mean, you can measure that. I've done stuff like that. It's hard to do. Is it around brand advertising that you just run in the marketplace on a repetitive basis? It's trying to keep an orientation to your key ... And there's probably key markets, it's going to be Los Angeles, maybe San Francisco, probably New York, others.
KATE: We have probably one of the longest-running brand health surveys than probably most brands out there.
GREG: Oh, wow.
KATE: We go back decades where we are in field every single week across the United States.
GREG: Really?
KATE: Asking about ... Trying to really understand the current health of the brand. Are you aware of us? What do you think of us? What's your intent to travel to Las Vegas? That is really important versus what's your intent to travel period.
GREG: Yeah. What's your intent to travel [and] what's your intent to travel here would be the big questions, I would think, right? Yep.
KATE: Exactly. We look at it from drive markets versus fly markets, just overall awareness of us, awareness of our ads, favorability of our ads. We're looking at all those. That's our brand health monitor. So we are looking at that at any given time. And what we have noticed is it's not just your traditional broadcast spend that influences those numbers. So I think one of the most important tools in any marketer's toolkit is your PR machine. And so driving earned media headlines is so important. And so if we are actively out there talking about what's new or what's going on in Las Vegas, that has an impact very similar to an ad campaign. But it has a greater impact because it's other people talking about your brand. So you get a little bit more credit for it versus if it's a branded newspaper ad saying, hey, here are all the new things that we've got in our market.
You get somebody else to write about and talk about it. The power of that is really important. So it's a long way of saying brand marketing comes in lots of different forms. Earned media is a really important one of them, but ultimately we're using that brand health tracker to see the impact of all of these things going on. I can't isolate one individual item, but all of these things influence it, which is fantastic and it's important to understand that component.
GREG: And so what's featured in there? What are you putting in the brand ads? Can you talk a little bit about what those look like? And I know you do a fair amount of testing around your ads too, you said, right?
KATE: Yeah, we do. We do a ton of ad testing. So before it goes out, we know how consumers are going to react to it. And then as part of that brand health survey that we have out constantly in field, we're also asking them, "Have you seen the ads? Do you like the ads?" And if it starts to taper off, we'll pull it and switch it out.
GREG: So you're looking at, "we're out on it" really fast.
KATE: Yeah, absolutely. So our current campaign, and I'll share them with you so you guys can play them, but we've got these series, we've got six 15-second spots. We've launched three of them so far. They're called Pack for Vegas. And it's about the excitement and buildup of people packing for their trip to Vegas because it's this permission of you can be whoever you want to be when you come to Las Vegas. No judgment, just come and have a great time. So there is literally this one ... And it harkens back to the what happens here, stays here campaign where it's a little of that wink and the nod that you were talking about. So one of the spots is this woman going through TSA. You've got a TSA agent looking skeptical, trying to figure out what is in this woman's suitcase. You don't know it's a woman.
You don't know anything about her as he's looking and you see these facial expressions. And finally he gets this nod of approval as he figures it out and looks at her and you cut to this girl, she's like, "Yeah." And it says, "Pack for Vegas," like smash-cut, big logo, super fun. You still don't know what's in her suitcase. It doesn't matter. It's just permission and go have fun. Go have a great time. So that comedy wink and a nod, it's back. We've got three of those spots running. We've got another three that we're going to start rolling out late summer. So it's fun. That's the current campaign that's out there right now along with, actually, a sizzle reel, which we call our product spot. And so we've got a sizzle reel that ends with the same "Pack for Vegas" smash-cut logo, and it shows the breadth and depth of everything that's going on in Vegas this summer.
So I call it my product spot. Our sizzle reel is our product spot because it's visually showcasing here's all the different amazing resorts and pool parties and nightclubs and day clubs and shopping and entertainment, you name it. It's happening right now in Vegas and it showcases the fireworks, and that spot's running too. And what's interesting is that spot is actually testing better than my brand spots. My brand spots are still testing very high, but that spot's testing higher. And I think it's because it's the combination of all these things and it's not just a singular, hey, what do you think about this? But you're getting that emotional feeling of, yeah, I want to go to Vegas from the TSA agent spot all the way down to the reasons you have to go to Vegas, the hardworking sizzle spot. All those things together are just, they're firing on all cylinders and I'm seeing my intent to want to visit Vegas rise.
So that's all super positive. Those are the metrics I'm looking for from my marketing campaigns.
GREG: Hey Kate, I'm listening to you here and thinking a little bit, and MMA has done some research around this. I'm curious, to what degree are you able to personalize ads? And the reason I'm asking that question is because you're right, a lot of people come for different reasons. They're going to be budget travelers. There's going to be those looking for luxury. There's those who are there for gambling. There's those who are there for the shows, those who are just there for maybe the weekend away and maybe out dining. I mean, there's just so many. There's those who are for an intense party experience, the clubs. I mean, there's so much to do. We have done a bunch of machine learning-based personalization that we have found to be dramatically powerful. And we've not had anybody really push the personalization in the way we'd want. And by the way, what this is doing, which is interesting, is that it's a little bit of a heat-seeking missile.
You create the creative, it goes and finds the cohorts that that's going to matter to. And the performance is two, three, four X to business as usual. It's pretty crazy.
How do you think about a mix of portfolio of products and interests? Because people could be really different. Even mine, like I mentioned earlier, we brought my 5-year-old twin girls there sometimes.
KATE: Every trip to Vegas is incredibly different for every single person.
GREG: Absolutely.
KATE: What you're coming for this weekend will also be very different than what you're coming for in three months from now.
GREG: It could change, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
KATE: So digital signals are really important in helping us figure out what creative we're deploying to what target groups or what personas. We generally go and produce in any campaign that we're doing, you've got a variety of different assets that we're producing based on age or interest, things like that. It is through sequential messaging that we're changing out what you're seeing next based on how you're engaging with that ad.
GREG: Listen, Kate, I can't thank you enough for doing this. I knew it was an interesting story. I had talked to someone on your team way back when. I don't know, it's been a few years now and stuff. And I remember thinking, wow, that's a very crazy kind of thing to have to go figure out. And fun and complex.
KATE: It's absolutely fun. It's complex. There's a lot of layers to what we do. It's very dynamic. But at the end of the day, it's like a marketer's dream because there's so many segments, so many versions of our product, so many audiences, so many reasons for why people are traveling. It's just —
GREG: And your biz dev, which makes it sound boring, is entertainment-oriented. The things you're doing with the fireworks or anything else, it's all about ... So you have this very unusual mix. I don't really like working with entertainment companies very well. They can hear this. That's fine. The issue is because they don't make science- or fact-based marketing decisions. They do whatever Tom Cruise wanted them to do, and I find that kind of annoying because it's not based on good marketing, but you're having to do great marketing with a tinge of this entertainment sort of jack-it-all-up kind of a thing that could happen with some of the programs you try to figure out.
KATE: That's exactly right. We got to do things on the scale of spectacle, on the scale of Vegas.
GREG: And then you have to do it at Vegas scale. Yeah, exactly.
KATE: And then we have to reinvent it the next time around.
GREG: Hey, Kate, we're both wrong. It's actually Vegas fabulous is what it needs to get to.
KATE: There you go. (laugh)
GREG: Okay, listen.
KATE: I'm going to steal that.
GREG: I can't thank you enough for being on Building Better CMOs. Thank you very much.
KATE: Thank you so much, Greg.
GREG: Thanks to Kate Wik for coming on Building Better CMOs. Check the description of this episode for links to connect with Kate. If you liked this episode, you might also really enjoy my conversation with Andrea Brimmer, the chief marketing PR officer of Ally Financial. We talked all about how Ally invests equally in men's and women's sports, the research that MMA and Ally have done to bring data into brand marketing, and what it takes to transition from account manager to marketing leader. You can find that episode on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you're listening to me now. At the Marketing Media Alliance, we're working to make marketing matter more through conferences, research, and education. If you want to know more about the MMA, visit mmaglobal.com. You can also email me directly, greg@mmaglobal.com. Don't forget, Building Better CMOs is now on YouTube. Just go to bettercmos.com/youTube to start watching.
Our producer and podcast consultant is Eric Johnson from lightningpod.fm. Artwork is by Jason Chase, and a very special thanks to Angela Gray and Dan Whiting. This is Greg Stuart, I'll see you in two weeks.