Moët Hennessy SVP Regan O'Kon

REGAN O’KON: As leaders, we have to keep our sights on what is both important and long term for the business and also for the health of our greater teams and the team dynamic. We all do the PowerPoints, we all do the meetings after meetings, but whenever I start the team meeting, I say, What is our North Star?

GREG STUART: Regan O'Kon, welcome to Building Better CMOs.

REGAN: Thank you so much. I'm so thrilled to be here. Excited for our conversation today, Greg.

GREG: I know, this is interesting. I mean, listen, there's probably no category other than — and by the way, just in case the listener wasn't looking or paying attention — Regan is the SVP commercial marketing [at] Moët Hennessy. I think that luxury brands in particular — and I think alcohol brands doubled down on that — if there was ever a place that marketing played a role in defining the entire product and the whole value proposition, it's in your category. Right?

REGAN: Well, we do try our best for that as well. Thank you so much. I will take that as a compliment because the team is always focused on building memories.

GREG: Right, right. Well good. I'm looking forward to this conversation. So listen, a couple of things here. You know what might be good, just so the listeners understand, do you want to just rattle off a couple of the big brands, just so people know what's going on here.

REGAN: Yes. And if there's any clips that ever show, they are right here on the camera as well.

GREG: There we go. Good.

REGAN: We have a variety of both champagnes, spirits, wines, and you'll see Hennessy, Hennessy XO, Moët and Chandon, Veuve Cliquot, Dom Perignon, Krug champagne, Ruinart, Phelps wine, and some smaller craft spirits like Woodenville bourbon and Volcan tequila as well, and a couple single malts, Ardbeg and Glenmorangie.

GREG: Yeah, and listen, I saw you actually have, I think the newest brand on there was Woodenville. Is it a whiskey? I don't know if I noticed what it was. Woodenville, right?

REGAN: Yes, Woodenville. And I don't have a bottle up there, but it is absolutely lovely.

GREG: Yeah, it's a new one. I happen to be from Washington state. I was born and raised in Washington state, so I'm familiar ... I'm probably one of the few people who actually knows the town where that was.

GREG: Now listen, so let's explain, too, for the listener a little bit your title here. So, commercial marketing. Why don't you give some background to what that means. It in essence makes you the center of marketing there, but explain what that is there and how it works.

REGAN: I wouldn't consider myself to be the center of marketing.

GREG: Okay. Maybe I shouldn't have said that. For others at the company listening, sorry, sorry. A hub. How about a hub to support all the [spokes] there, right? Exactly.

REGAN: Yes. But we're absolutely a hub. The alcohol bev industry is highly complex, also highly regulated. And we do have brilliant traditional marketeers that oversee each brand house, which we affectionately call maison, and we have an excellent sales team. I sit right at that inflection point between the two, speaking both languages of both marketeers and the commercial team. So the reason for existing, for my team, is really about bringing the brands to life close to the point of purchase. Where the consumer pulls that cocktail or picks it from a menu or pulls it off a shelf, my team has created those strategies.

GREG: Got it, got it. It's a follow-on to the role you did previously at Beam Suntory, which you were in charge of on-premise marketing there. Correct?

REGAN: Yes.

GREG: It's a very unique, special ... I don't have a lot of experience in this liquor category, but it's a very interesting ... I know enough ... And I don't know if you were there when Rebecca Messina was at Beam, but I have a lot of exposure through a lot of my members around it. Yeah, it's very interesting.

GREG: Let me ask you a funny question, how does — and I realize it's probably in partnership with the brand leads for each one of the maisons. Maisons? How do you say it?

REGAN: Oh, your French is very good.

GREG: No, no, I speak no other language, I barely speak English. The question I have is how do you balance between long-term brand building versus stuff that generates more immediate sales? I mean, that's really tough for your category around the measurement and the dynamic. How do you guys look at that?

REGAN: We look at it very analytically, but also we have to map it against what's going on culturally and what headwinds and tailwinds we see.

GREG: Oh, that's interesting.

REGAN: Yes. So there could be something where a category could be declining, but there could also be an angle that we could take from a cocktail strategy that could redefine that moment. Conversely, there could be a tailwind. I don't know what you like to drink, but right now people are loving espresso martinis. Martini culture is having a big moment. And so one of my favorite portfolio products, Belvedere, we're having a lot of fun building out martini strategies, cool martinis, super-elevated martinis with B 10. And we have a new innovation, Dirty Brew, which is coffee vodka that we will be launching nationwide next year. And so it's an art and a science. We have an incredibly strong insights data analytics team here. And then a lot of it is really understanding what's going on in the marketplace, the marché, and that's where the consumers are and that's where they're making their choices.

GREG: You're right, it really would be — of anything — it really would be of the moment and what's happening in your ability to really leverage that. It makes it very tricky.

REGAN: It makes it tricky, but it makes it dynamic and a lot of fun. We have a huge portfolio of incredible global iconic brands. And so we take the challenge.

GREG: I mean, if the listener hasn't paid attention here, I mean really some of the best of the brands out there. I mean, it's unbelievable. When I went through the whole list, I was like, oh my God, of course I know everything on here at a level and it has a special sort of meaning to it.

GREG: Hey Regan, listen, there's a lot of changes going on, I think, with consumers' orientation to alcohol brands today. You've got ... Listen, Heineken, Jonnie Cahill was on the board here for a number of years with Heineken, and I got Molson Coors on the board, so I've talked to them a lot about what's happening. And consumers are just ... There's a lot of movement to alcohol-free products. Some of the beers are doing that, and they're getting real volume in that, and you see them investing behind that. I guess for the brands, I'm just curious, from the brands you do, how do you — and listen, there's always consumers changing tastes here. I'm not making any other commentary than just consumers are always doing something different in the world or looking at the world different. How do you have to adjust maybe your market or how do you all think about that internally over the last couple number of years?

REGAN: First of all, at Moët Hennessy, we've always encouraged only responsible and moderate consumption. And as the consumers become more choiceful, we're seeing a few things. We're seeing that consumers may want something lower proof, where we have beautiful recipes that are quite low proof, or even something as simple as people having one glass of champagne, which is perfect for a celebration. We're also seeing what's called zebra striping, where consumers will have an alcohol drink and then a non-alcohol drink. We've always —

GREG: Oh, it's called zebra striping. That's funny. Okay, I like that. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah.

REGAN: We learned it from our incredible insights data and analytics team. Shout out. But we also see consumers that want to abstain and we offer non-alcoholic products like French Bloom. So we have incredible serves for anyone's taste or choices as consumers become more mindful.

GREG: Listeners should take away, listen, even when you're 300, 400 years old, there's still room for change.

REGAN: Always room for change and evolution. Yes.

GREG: [laugh] Always, always.

GREG: Okay, so listen, let's get to one of the first questions here, one of the big questions for Building Better CMOs. So as you look back over the course of your career — and by the way, you're fine to go personal if you want on this or business, any way you want to do it, but anyway, you can answer twice, it's open-ended — I'm always curious. I'll tell you, too, I'll put it this way. As a father, it's interesting to me, I've noticed what my kids picked up and the advice I've given them over the years. I'm a little more concerned about what they didn't pay attention to, but that's a different story. But as I look at it, the question comes up then, what's the best advice that you've been given over the course of either, I don't know, you can go anywhere. Somebody actually talked about the advice their father gave them when they went to college, so I don't know, what's some of the best advice you've been given over the years that stuck with you the most?

REGAN: There's a couple different pieces of advice. One piece that has stuck with me — especially as I became, within my career, a manager rather than an individual contributor, and then a leader of verticals — is I received this advice: Don't let tasks take over. And this simple phrase has made a profound impact in how I approach business.

GREG: Yeah, what's that mean?

REGAN: It's nothing especially groundbreaking, but we are all guilty of letting tasks take over, every single day. You might have to create a PowerPoint, you might have to put a checklist on your annual planning milestone. You might have to have a huge cross-functional meeting, you might have to present to the board. All of these things are business critical and super important, but when you take a breath after finishing your checklist, the most important thing is your team and your ability as a leader to remove barriers and let them go and be creative and inspired.

GREG: Yup.

REGAN: There's so many hours in the day where teammates can just feel overwhelmed and checking their to-do list. So as I've grown in my own career and taken on larger teams, that simple piece of advice has allowed me to see maybe when the team is feeling overwhelmed with things and how to just pluck out barriers and act as a referee so they can stay where they should be: developing creative, cool things for consumers.

GREG: Is that saying don't let the urgent overwhelm the important? That's not exactly where you went with it, which I've heard a lot of people use as a phrase, or is it more stay focused on really what matters, everybody? Yeah.

REGAN: A little bit of both. So when we look at the urgent/important matrix, which when I first learned that early in my career was also revelatory, because when you're —

GREG: Yes, me too. Exactly. I was like, oh yes. How important. Yes.

REGAN: This is very revelatory. [laugh] As any human beings, we tend to want to put out what we perceive to be the fire drills or what will make one of our colleagues happy right away. Or if someone says, Hey, I'm sending you this note, action this. As leaders, we have to keep our sights on what is both important and long-term for the business and also for the health of our greater teams and the team dynamic. We all do the PowerPoints, we all do the meetings after meetings, but whenever I start the team meeting, I say, What is our North Star?

GREG: Oh, so you try to set a goal from the very beginning, maybe of a discussion or otherwise.

REGAN: Yeah. Not even necessarily a goal. We have financial goals, we have metrics. What is our reason for being? We have a little phrase, it's to uncork possibilities. [laugh]

GREG: There you go. Well, I like keeping with the brand there. So that's how you set up situations. Where else do you see that come up with maybe individuals or maybe with teams or so on that you try to address that?

REGAN: A lot of times when a teammate will come and if they need coaching or just to vent, sometimes what they're really describing is a tactical barrier that maybe they just don't know how to fix. And so again, the true leader's role is to remove that barrier or implement confidence so people know how to do it the next time.

GREG: Yeah. I tell my team all the time, I says, listen, you can text me morning, noon, or night, seven days a week, I don't care when, because if you think you're about to be or have been stuck on something for 30 minutes that I can resolve in two, three, five, then please call me. Let's do that. I'd like to see you be able to keep going on the mission that you're trying to accomplish at the moment and not get too stuck. We all get kind of stuck with stuff sometimes, right?

REGAN: Yes. I really relate to that, Greg. In my background, when I entered corporate America, I started from the very entry-level role. The incredible team I have the privilege of leading now, I've done every role that they do, so I've walked a day in their shoes, and so, same philosophy. Give me a shout if you need a sounding board, if you need to learn something, or any challenges navigating. It makes me really proud of the team dynamic we have here.

GREG: Yeah, I mean, I see here you actually started as a brand ambassador yourself for one of the brands.

REGAN: Yes.

GREG: Yeah. Yeah. That's great.

GREG: Any other advice you have that you think was really interesting to set aside your career pointing in the right direction? I don't know, reset things for you that you pass along or maybe you just keep it to yourself.

REGAN: So another really great piece of advice is to just be yourself, be your best self at work, but be yourself. There's been different eras in my career where I felt some level of discomfort or imposter syndrome, especially as my career began to accelerate, moments when I could have and should have been very proud. I look back, sometimes I was filled with self-doubt and sometimes it was not because of my skill set. I've always been confident in the work, but more so about fitting in and being like the other teams. And when I let myself off the hook for that and decided to be my best self, that's when I could really focus on the team. And I think that that's — from when I talk to my friends and colleagues — I think that that's a very normal inflection point in a leadership journey that we could talk about more.

GREG: That's interesting. Regan, I didn't mention it earlier. I had my notes here. I'll go back to it though. I noticed something funny on your LinkedIn profile — not funny — but I noticed something, it caught my attention, is that you actually did a certification around leading with emotional intelligence.

REGAN: Yes.

GREG: I think that's exactly, that's the point that you're speaking to here.

REGAN: Yes.

GREG: Why'd you do that course or what did you get from whatever that was? I didn't dig into it, but just the title caught my attention.

REGAN: That was a great course. I think I did that course during Covid, if I remember, and you can timestamp me, I believe.

GREG: Yeah, I'll check here. Yeah. August 2020. Yes. You're thick into Covid at this point.

REGAN: Thick into it.

GREG: The world is still collapsing at this point. Yes.

REGAN: The world was in a very strange place.

GREG: Which was very strange for somebody who does premise-based marketing.

REGAN: Yes. The team and I, at that point, we were in on-premise roles. We were an on-premise specific team, and during that time, most restaurants were closed for anything but to-go.

GREG: Or outside. I mean, I don't know what the hell the on-premise experience is for outside dining. [laugh]

REGAN: Well, during that time there was a couple of videos of people eating in the snow or opening wine in the snow.

GREG: Yeah, no, the coldest meal I ever had was at Daniel's, which if you know was an incredibly expensive restaurant on the Upper East Side. We went there for, it was just a couple days, my wife's birthday just after Christmas Day, a couple days after Christmas Day, and it was definitely the coldest meal, we were freezing.

REGAN: But still delicious, lovely.

GREG: Oh my God, so delicious. It was really amazing. Yeah.

REGAN: I used to live on 65th Street.

GREG: Oh, you know. Yeah.

REGAN: What an expensive place to have as your local bar. Worth it. Daniel is brilliant and I love everything he does.

REGAN: But I remember I took that class because the team was really, really scared. All of us were. Not only about the business or our roles, but there was this overarching sense of existential dread during Covid.

GREG: Yeah, totally.

REGAN: And I realized that sometimes the team just needed to talk about it, or sometimes you needed to really ground yourself in the fact that we don't lead little corporate robots, we lead teams of human beings that are having challenges. That jogged my memory. Thank you so much. I loved that course. I recommend it. I'll reshare it on my LinkedIn.

GREG: I appreciate your point. You're right. We are just dealing with human beings, both as consumers, which we'll get to here more so in a moment, and just the teams that we have to lead and they have their own challenges and their own issues and their own dynamics. It's funny, I actually don't often mention this on the podcast, but I actually have a PhD psychologist on retainer here at the MMA.

REGAN: Oh wow. For performance coaching?

GREG: Yeah. I mean, listen, I would hope that's what he would most accomplish as the CEO. Yes, that's what I want out of it. So it makes it like Wendy and "Billions." But I think it's more around smoothing around the edges of human existence, I would say. And what that means is that if somebody's struggling with something and they don't know either how to get themselves out of it — it's a variation of the things you've said here, by the way, I've heard this whenever we think about it. So sometimes they can help them reposition and reframe. I mean, it's one of the basic tenets of psychology. Your brain's lying to you constantly so let's get the right orientation of the world. Then I think it's also too, if somebody feels like they need to have a difficult conversation with me or maybe somebody else on the team, then how do you set up and how do you have that conversation in hopefully the most productive and valuable way for everybody involved. And that's why I say it's smoothing out the edges of personal existence within business, because the business is about getting things done, making things happen, satisfying a consumer need of some kind. It's not necessarily about the people in the company. And so we just got to blend those things together. Yeah, isn't that funny? I'll tell you what's really funny to me, Regan, I've not heard anybody else who said they have that.

I've had this guy retainer for at least more than a dozen years at this point.

REGAN: I love that you have that. I will say here at MH USA, we don't have the psychologist on retainer. We have an incredible HR team that has really led endeavors that have opened up these conversations for all of us. So we're speaking the same language. We went through something called critical conversations, which is something that you just mentioned, how to talk about compensation, how to talk about coaching, how to react or be there to support the team when they might not be feeling their best. We also lead another class for all of our people leaders called Inclusive Leadership Journey. Again, it's fundamental and it gives all the team a comfort level of speaking to one another and it demystifies some of these conversations that can be stressful.

GREG: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And kind of puts them in the right direction. It just helps. Listen, it's never good to either create the emotional angst, which is the worst part of any of this, or to just create distraction and efforts and energies that are put into stuff that's not around supporting the business. By the way, just to be really clear about the psychologist, his primary job is to come back and tell me what I'm doing wrong. I mean, that's really what his function is, to listen to the company and to say, Greg, I think he'd be better off over here than there. Or you want to rethink this a little bit? I mean, that's part of his job, to look at that, because everybody is complicated by the decisions they make, everything's dressed up in the issues of yesteryear brought to the events of today. And just, humans are complicated.

REGAN: Humans are complicated. And I think that in the respect that he works with you, maybe he is Wendy from "Billions."

GREG: [laugh] And MMA has done well so maybe it's working. I don't know. We'll go with that. Hey, listen —

REGAN: [laugh] It's definitely working.

GREG: Let's get to the big question — you ready? — for building better CMOs.

REGAN: Yes.

GREG: This is our job, our job, the job at the MMA, the job of an industry body like the MMA is to really help support, in our case, marketer CMOs and being better at the things they do, to make marketing a more valuable function, to really help increase ... advance ... I think our mission statement, our purpose statement, is to advance marketing's impact on the business. So we got all that. From your standpoint, and as a trade, as an industry... I'm supposed to go fix things, so I'm looking for problems. We're going to talk problems, right? That's the goal here. I'm sure there's some solution, but we're going to talk problem. So what do you think that marketing marketers maybe either don't fully understand, don't fully appreciate, don't really have good data, maybe you're looking at it wrong, you can go there too, but what do you think marketing, marketers, CMOs are challenged with that we all could spend more time in resolving, investigating, dealing with? What do you think?

REGAN: I will say that when I think about this, it probably is partly informed by the complexity of our business in alc bev, but one thing that we can all get better at is taking these beautiful strategies, these beautiful campaigns, and understanding the data, the insights they were built on, and also the messaging, but bringing that all the way through the line to the person it matters for: the consumer at execution level. And so I say strategy times execution and things tend to get pretty muddy in that gray zone of strategic execution. Within the luxury realm, within the luxury realm of anything — a handbag, a lipstick, a delicious Hennessy Sidecar, a sabered bottle of champagne — all of these things are not just about the packaging or the product. Luxury is also about small acts of service and hospitality and tiny little details. So as marketeers or marketing teams, because as I said, I'm in a really cross-functional role, it's maintaining relentless focus on that end moment, that end final moment for the consumer, for the guest, that creates a memory.

GREG: I mean, there's probably not a consumer in the world right now who isn't standing up cheering and saying, Please, you go, because of the frustration that people tend to have, I think consumers tend to have with companies. So talk about how that shows up for your brands. At some level I can start to imagine, but maybe give me examples about the kinds of things you do, the programs you execute, maybe if it's what brand ambassador, just riff on that for a little bit.

REGAN: Yeah, so I think a really good example is within the brand ambassador realm. When you're choosing a product as a consumer, and even when I choose something completely different, a lipstick, a brand, so many things have led me to that choice, so many things that we would consider the traditional funnel. Once you are in the field, which is what we call the marketplace in alc bev, there are also armies of human beings that are working so hard to make sure that consumers have incredible cocktails, incredible serves of champagne, or see a brand on shelf at a store and pick that one. That part of the team is both frontline sales and brand ambassadors, different types of specialists. And their specialty is storytelling.

GREG: Oh, I don't know if I saw storytelling coming as the component, but yeah, go ahead.

REGAN: And so again, when a consumer, or when you and I is picking out a by-the-glass of champagne at a restaurant, there are individuals within the team that have done a staff training for that restaurant to tell them about different aspects of the wine, the champagne, or even how to build the perfect martini. And so the storytelling, the human connection, these little acts of service is what really creates the luxury ecosystem.

GREG: So listen, boy, that's a tremendous amount of energy and effort to go, but you really don't have any other choice but to train them, to educate them, to help them to understand what the product does or what its positioning or what its meaning is to the consumer, right?

REGAN: Of course. But that is luxury. Luxury is in the work, in the forethought, in the human interaction. More than ever, we see consumers, when they purchase anything, they want authenticity and they want human connection and they also want consistency. When you select any product, you want to be able to trust it as well.

GREG: I think that's the fundamental thesis of a bar is that ability to create an environment for connection, isn't it? I think that's really what it is. I don't think people are just going to drink alcohol. They're not just there to drink, although that's the activity.

REGAN: And you enjoy and you have a cocktail or a glass of wine or champagne, but when you're at a bar or at a restaurant — and I have a special love for this area, the on-premise restaurants, bars, hotels — the vast majority of choices are also informed by recommendation from the bartender, from the sommelier, from the server. And so imagine you're out to a beautiful dinner with your wife, there's a volume of wines in the wine list. The sommelier will come and perform an act of service in the detailed knowledge that they have to help guide your decision.

GREG: It's what she or he suggests is what might be that opportunity, right? I mean, listen, it's funny. I was just putting into — I just typed into ChatGPT here real quick. I said, How many waiters, waitresses are there? So it wouldn't be all luxury. And then how many bartenders? So there's 700 — in the US apparently — 750,000 bartenders. So that's a lot of people to influence. And there's 2.3 million waiters, waitresses, right?

REGAN: Yes.

GREG: That's a lot of influencing.

REGAN: It's a lot of influencing. And it's a lot of tacticians, expert tacticians in the field working towards that influence and also just sharing the beauty of our iconic brands.

GREG: But that rolls back though, if we go back upstream, the message to get to that point, which I'm just overwhelmed by the number of contacts you'd have to have, the training, the education you have to have on in-premises and the dynamics of that. But it's back to also the data and the inputs you have back from around the consumer and the choices that they have available to make. Can you talk a little bit about the data accumulation and data dynamics or analytics that you're using to better inform around some of this?

REGAN: So we have an incredible data team and they sit right down the hall from me and they figure out all different forward-looking consumer signals, backwards-looking consumer habits, also tons of syndicated data. And so we're able to somewhat anticipate things. However, there's an art and science of consumer behavior. You can have a lot of data and still be caught off guard or still be surprised by how consumers are behaving. And so this is where we really have to create connectivity and trust with our teams in the marketplace and have them give us also field-level insights and listen to the teams.

GREG: Can you share an insight, something that's not confidential obviously, but can you share an insight to something around either one or a couple of the brands? I think they are so iconic, everybody would know them, but what's the story behind some of those brands?

REGAN: Yeah, so I'll give one that's a little bit top of mind because I was just there. Belvedere is a Polish vodka and we're having a lot of great success on Belvedere right now. The data might show us overall that maybe people are drinking a little bit less or maybe people are conserving a little bit of money or are conscious of tariffs. And Belvedere is doing great. When we look at the data, we also have to marry in what's going on in the marketplace. Martinis are hot, espresso martinis are very cool. We have signature serves, what we call rituals, of Belvedere martinis or even, I don't know if you've experienced this, Greg, but a luxury martini with B 10 with a little bump of caviar. [laugh]

GREG: I've not seen that. Okay. That's a whole nother thing. Okay, got it. Okay, got it. That's a good example though, right?

REGAN: It's also under understanding macro trends, what's going on at the market level, what very cool influential people are doing first, and then creating something that builds on that momentum.

GREG: And so all of that starts back with, I mean listen, forgive me for being a little bit old-school. Well, actually no, how are you doing that today? It used to start with ads in magazine, so it was the ads in Vogue, I mean would've done a lot of that marketing as an original ad agency guy. We don't do print really so much anymore. So how do you actually set the overarching tone for alcohol brands today and in particular for luxury brands, where does that show up and exist? Or does it even really exist in advertising? Has it just moved to purely experiential things, marketing in the right environments? I don't know, the polo matches or wherever it might be for upscale? Yeah. How does that work today?

REGAN: It all still works together and it's all still happening. When I mentioned my brand lead counterparts, they really do brilliant media campaigns, and campaigns create impressions, and there's these lighthouse moments that they bring to life. One of the really recent examples was the US Open and Moët was there. We had a little Moët pavilion and a hospitality suite.

GREG: I saw that, yeah.

REGAN: And when you're there, and I was fortunate enough to go with the team, but when you're attending something like that, you're in the moment. You're at a tennis match enjoying a beautiful glass of champagne, cheering on as a fan, and some people are just watching it on TV. And so for the past two years as we've been doing this in New York, we've also created little experiences, little vignettes all throughout the city where people that might not go out and get to see the Open can have that same adjacent experience. We popped up a cute little pavilion at the Gansevoort Hotel. We had US Open-themed Moët-mosas all throughout the city. And so that's really where we take bigger campaigns that drive impressions and then bring them to life in special unique moments.

GREG: Hey Regan. It's funny you mentioned the US Open. So I noticed how well it appears that another brand that we will go nameless because you're on the air here with me, that created this sort of concept around the Happy Deuce, which seemed to capture a lot of attention. Have you ever had other examples with, I mean I don't know if you have reflections on that or just other examples of maybe where that's happened in creating these special experiences and moments and, I don't know, just attention in a way that's very hard to do for marketers?

REGAN: Yes. In my career, I spent about a decade over at Campari, and I loved working there. It was an incredible springboard for my career. We were in acquisition mode and at one point we decided to really bring Aperol and the Aperol Spritz to life in the US. This started in about 2016. Now, 10 years later, it's nearly ubiquitous. When you see consumers enjoying a beautiful orange drink, you're like, What is that? But in the very early days of that, we were seeding something that we wanted to be a trend, that existed in Europe, but it didn't start with a huge above-the-line campaign. It didn't start with any media. When we started that — and it was all-hands, marketing, trade marketing, sales — we started it from a purely tactical lens of having an Aperol Spritz cart in the Hamptons during its first summer, to having samplings, to creating a campaign which was then known as "contagious joy." And now when you look at Aperol Spritz, it evokes so many memories or so many thoughts, I guess is the better word: sunlit terraces, dolce vita, celebrating with friends, having an aperitivo. And it's synonymous with those things. But that initial build was a tactician strategy and now we see it above the line with campaigns, with ads. And so that was a really very valuable experience in learning the different ways brands can be built.

GREG: What was the data and the storytelling that went behind that, by the way?

REGAN: So there was a lot of storytelling around the Italian way of life or more moments of aspiration.

However, it was also a leap of faith, and there were some things, there was little signals that we interpreted that this could be a place to win. During that era, people were getting very into coffee. This was also when it was peak kale era. And so the American palate, which has also tended to be more sweet, became a little bit bitter curious. And so this is something where luck, great tactics, full-team collaboration, relentless belief, and consistency paid off. It didn't happen overnight. It took years of doing the same strategy, years of believing it would be a thing. Now it is ubiquitous, and when I see it, I'm still so proud of my team over there.

GREG: You said a very funny thing there too, or just not funny, but a certain interesting point. You say it and you stuck with it. So listen, I've often been of the belief that we as marketing driven by the whims of the rest maybe of the C-suite or whatever influences within the company, we tend to run towards something and then shut it off before maybe we've given it an opportunity. How did you know to stick with that and not abandon it? Because there's usually ... George Clooney put it best. He goes, Yeah, I'm a 15-year overnight success. I mean, that's what happened, 15 years working really hard and suddenly you're a big deal. [laugh] How did you know to stick with it, though, and not abandon it?

REGAN: It was a cultural mandate at the company.

GREG: Okay.

REGAN: It was — I look back and I have so much respect for that marketing team and their courage. They took something that was not a trend, but just an established way of life in Italy, the aperitivo moment —

GREG: We all think the Italians are doing better than we are. If you look at their economy, they're really not. But that's okay. We all think somehow it's a better lifestyle.

REGAN: Well, there are certain parts that are absolutely excellent, but it took an internal culture of saying, We are going to set trends. It was very savvy marketing, first in the tactics, but it was also incredible teamwork and relentless focus and we did not change the strategy.

GREG: And a consistent team, I imagine, that stuck with it, probably a leader who was in place for some period of time.

REGAN: Yup. And also, in big global companies ... It was a full support from the global team as well.

GREG: Was there real data that supported that at the time, by the way, that really said, Hey, I don't know if it's as simple as Italian lifestyle, but was there something that really said, Wow, you're probably really onto something here, even if it's not lit fire yet? I don't know. I'm curious.

REGAN: Honestly, it's been nearly a decade. I don't remember the specific data points, but I do know that we kept looking at how the data was turning. It didn't happen overnight that all of a sudden it was one of the top cocktails in the US.

GREG: Yeah.

REGAN: Were we making progress? And then all of a sudden it's one of the top ordered cocktails in the US, but that did not happen overnight. I don't remember quite the specifics. [laugh]

GREG: Yeah. No, it's been a little while and I'm not even sure I would've noticed. But yeah, there had to be some real insight to that that really drove and said, Let's stick with it. Or, quite frankly, what's interesting — it's a funny aside that has nothing to do with anything, honestly, more business — but the MMA, I didn't found the MMA, but I've become kind of the founder because I rejiggered the whole thing and changed it so much. It's a very interesting position to be in a founder-oriented status. And what it means, if you look at how Google makes decisions or you look at how Meta makes decisions, I mean, Mark Zuckerberg says, This is where we're going, this is what we're going to do, and that's what's going to happen. Now, he's not always right, but there's a real drive, a propulsion they have to accomplish things. And it's very different than I think, how do you take Google — the collection of the smartest people in the world — and get them to agree on anything? I mean, oh my God, I can't even imagine the challenges of that job or roles there. So it's just different dynamics, I think, within companies and how they operate, I wonder if that sort of play ... It'd be interesting if there's research or analysis around how those different leadership dynamics change within these, what they mean to companies.

REGAN: That's really interesting. I will say that I've worked for three huge spirits companies or alc bev companies. The culture is different at each one.

GREG: Really? Oh wow.

REGAN: The work is similar, but the way decisions are made is different. And so it's really finding your path and the path to influence as well.

GREG: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, and there's a lot of value to having those different perspectives, that human a experience, I'm sure makes you incredibly valuable. Probably the reason you're at Moët, right?

REGAN: Well, we have a lot of really great humans that make it a pleasure to walk in the door every day here.

GREG: So how do you not then get caught up in the whims of something that then could shift the dynamics that might not be good for a brand? Do you know what I mean? We won't name names, but listen, there's an automotive company that decided to make a dramatic change in its positioning and presentation of its products and to suggest that company was old-school, I would think would be that brand. And so I think we as marketers are now watching that show up in Ad Age and Adweek. And so there they took a chance on really redefining what they were all about, who they were. And it appears at the moment to be upsetting. I dunno what long term is going to happen, but it appears to be upsetting.

REGAN: I feel so privileged just to work on this. For this moment in my career. Brands that have survived Prohibition, that have survived a pandemic.

GREG: Wars also. Oh my goodness. Right.

REGAN: But with a brand like Dom Perignon, the heritage, the enjoyment, the memory structure, even the aspiration of a consumer ordering it, it is special. It's seen as something that you would have for a very special occasion. The way people enjoy it is very diverse. You may have a beautiful dinner, a beautiful Christmas party, a beautiful anniversary or birthday, and you bring the Dom Perignon. It could also be something with our Dom Luminous that you have at a fun night out in the club, but it is about celebration in one way or another and indulgence.

GREG: And it is creating memories.

REGAN: It's creating memories.

GREG: It's funny, I just looked here really quick, so I didn't know this, of course, that the Dom Perignon, the name, comes from a 17th-century Benedictine monk at the Abbey of Hautvillers. How do you say that? I'm not sure what that is. Somewhere. Some abbey. But yeah, he didn't invent, but he did refine the blending techniques. Right? Isn't that funny? So interesting.

REGAN: Yes. So we have this edition, Dom Luminous, and we did a beautiful event several months ago over at Casa Cipriani. But when we think about bringing a heritage to life, we had a cloche — a long glass column — with some dry ice, and it creates that mystique and that heritage around the brand.

We play with the heritage, but in subtle ways as well.

GREG: Right, right. I love it. Well, listen, Regan, you're very ... I really appreciate it. Thank you for doing this and taking the time to share some of the insights. I did think it was a very unique situation you had, especially around the premise marketing, which is where I kind of wanted to hear from you because that act of having to create all that change and to carry a brand through and to be really consistent about it. There's probably no, I don't know, there's more complicated or probably no more complicated marketing dynamic to do than there is for a product such as either luxury brands or luxury alcohol for sure. So really, thank you. I can't thank you enough for doing this.

REGAN: Greg, thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed our conversation and nothing that comes to life is without the work of many teams here at MH USA. So a big thank you to all of my colleagues.

GREG: Absolutely.

REGAN: Please enjoy a glass of champagne.

GREG: And maybe give a little wave to all the brands behind, in case the listener didn't notice. For those on YouTube. There we go. [laugh] I love when people bring their product and market it through everything you do. That's great. Regan, thank you again, I appreciate it.

REGAN: Thank you so much.

GREG: Thanks again to Regan O'Kon from Moët Hennessy for coming on Building Better CMOs. Check the description of this episode for links to connect with Regan. If you like this episode, you might also enjoy my conversation with Doug Martin, the CMO of General Mills. We talked about the different flavors of brand management, why your marketing needs to start with a real human connection, and the story behind what I think is the best marketing idea ever, soup-flavored cough drops. Now, you can find that episode and every episode of Building Better CMOs on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you're hearing me now. At MMA, we are working to make marketing matter more through conferences, research and education. If you want to know more, visit mmaglobal.com. You can also email me directly, greg@mmaglobal.com. Don't forget, Building Better CMOs is now on YouTube, so just go to bettercmos.com/youtube to start watching. Our producer and podcast consultant is Eric Johnson from LightningPod.fm. Artwork is by Jason Chase. A special thanks to Angela Gray and Dan Whiting. This is Greg Stuart. I'll see you all in two weeks.